Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by yennus, Oct 8, 2011.
The speed of your defensive responses of Pandas has also a story to tell.
its all about being happy and making a little money ... thats my story ...
I'm not defensive at all man but why would you be interested in this forum if you do not like pandas?
I just find it strange that you hang around in here when you say you are not interested?
Isn't there anything exciting going on with what you collect ?
Maybe it's different in Australia but where I live we refer to it as trolling
1. what happened with the previous forum you were a member at? Cant sell the pandas there anymore for the same profit as here?
2. Oh, i am interested, my motivation is not only to make money - i also like to point out something that i think is overpriced - and if i end up looking like an idiot
2 years from now than so be it.
3. no there isnt nothing exciting going on with what i collect.
4. if you wanna refer to what i am doing as trolling, than maybe i can refer to what you are doing as hype-building
here are gorgeous looking Tulips to bury the hatchet
The main difference between tulips and pandas are the limited mintage
Hey bud ... wake up there is a world going on out there outside of your gameroom ... you seem to be way too interested in me but I don't mind ... troll away bro
You are actually very entertaining ! Thanks !
1. I don't feel I have to defend Pandas, but I feel a responsibility to share truthful information with those that want to hear it.
a) I started out with ASE/Maples/Kooks/Sovereigns/etc - and when I wanted/needed to sell them, I got less than optimal offers, and zero REAL gain. In a large number of SE Asian nations they didn't even want them.
b) I was later guided towards Pandas, and the profitability of these bears is HUGE - and I'm not a dealer, just a lowly collector. In the last few weeks Maggie has probably outsold me in Pandas. She also has the Panda Books which are highly recommended.
c) If you profit from Pandas because of what you read here, I hope we can enjoy drinks and a meal over it one day. If you lose money from Pandas because of what you read here, I hope we can enjoy drinks, food and laughs/tears over it one day.
2. I compare Pandas with ASEs, because ASEs are the standard bullion coin with easily accessible data. I could also compare Pandas with Maples and Kooks, but the data isn't so easy to find.
3. Some people do collect ASEs with the hope of REAL gains. Some people believe they will make REAL gains (not just capital gains), which is really unlikely.
4. Yes, some people collect ASEs purely because of their liquidity. Which is perfectly acceptable. I just think that an investment that provides no REAL returns over time is a poor place to park your money. Whereas Pandas provide both liquidity, and a REAL return.
5. The fraud/counterfeit argument is over-hyped. Especially in this forum, which is really so so sad. Do people stop using the $100USD note? That is one of the most counterfeited notes in the world.
6. Do your homework, and you'll find there are many good avenues and places to get Pandas all over the world. There is a reason why Pandas are counterfeited... it's because Pandas are profitable. As Pandas become more common in Australia, I'm confident that the Panda paranoia will disappear, or at the very least become more muffled.
7. The amount of gains being made on Pandas defeats the doubts many people may have towards Pandas, because obviously there are masses of well informed people that are investing in these bears and reaping many profits.
This is not a constructive approach at all...
If you are trying to learn more about Pandas, you are welcome to ask questions in a respectful way anytime.
If you are here to disparage people that invest and collect Pandas, your presence is not welcome.
PLEASE TRY TO REMEMBER WHEN IN THE PANDA FORUM: It is acceptable to attack a statement made, but not the person making the statement.
Not sure what you'll look like "2 years from now" Maybe an idiot, maybe not. But arguing with people who view Pandas positively and enjoy collecting them, makes you 'look' like one right now
Besides, the supporters here provide detailed information and statistics to support their position, what do you have that proves ASEs are a better investment? Do you actually make all your PM investing decisions based on the idea that this 'SHTF' is a certainty and one day you'll be trading your ASEs for food and water?
If so, it makes you look naive and inexperienced to say the least.
THUCY has some legitimate questions and his point #2 is a good one. I also call it like I see it when there is overpriced stuff (like me in RE threads...) so I can see where he is coming from.
There are no stupid questions, all questions are good.
Maybe someone can post up some comparisons of actual Chinese numismatic coin prices because that was how I became convinced pandas are underpriced.
I too am merely a beginner when it comes to the vast Chinese coin market, there is the lunar series, the baby & fish, the unicorns, the dragon/phoenix, the Kuan Yin coins, the famous people coins etc etc
The market is massive and very overwhelming.
Needless to say, being able to buy Gold pandas at melt value + 20% is a very good investment IMO by simply looking at the performance of other gold/silver coins in China.
Instead of comparing to ASEs perhaps it would be better to compare with other numismatic investments such as Perth Mint proof coins and other Chinese series coins.
The whole goal of numismatic stacking is completely and inherently different to SHTF stacking. The aims, the goals, the expectations are all different. Despite the differences, you can do both! (like me, generic rounds/bars + pandas)
The problem we have here is a misunderstanding between both types of stacking.
I think we all need to sit back and take a look at why we are buying pandas and explain our rationale instead of preaching the panda goodness.
If people are serious about researching an investment they will take a look at our rationale and form their own ideas as to whether or not it is a good idea to invest in Pandas.
ps. THUCY is one of the forum's numismatic experts imo, so anything he asks in here is more likely a serious question than a 1 post troll fest.
If you would take the time to move away from your checkerboard for five minutes and spend 1 minute searching my name ... you would see that I have NEVER sold 1 coin on any forum but have purcahsed $1,000's of dollars of them.
Since you seem to be stalking me on this forum ... I'm sure that you have noticed that I have only given away freely on this forum and also sending over $500 in coins to collectors here without making a DIME or even collecting money up front.
So let me tell you this gramps, you have mistaken me for someone else or another one of your kind but I have done nothing here but communicate with other members in another country who are fascinated with the same hobby of collecting that I am ... why is that so hard for you to understand?
if you are so unhappy and afraid of the end of world ... shouldnt you be preparing for the end and not attacking people with your mighty keyboard?
fishball i respect you 100% but disagree that this poster came in here amiably looking for "help" or 'to better understand" anything ... I do not like to disrespect anyone and will give respect where it is due. People who come into a forum to downgrade and disrespect the hobby that is the subject of the forum lack any class.
I have said it before but if exposing a person and their ulterior motives is disrectful then they should be prepared to be disrespected on several occasions.
There is a HUGE difference in asking sincere questions to learn/gain knowledge rather than making cynical and condescending statements.
I am a very helpful person and willing to assist and answer any questions for members but I will not tolerate disrespect
Problem is, if a person has a counter-point they should back it up with the same factual statistical evidence as the people he's debating. While sarcasm is an appropriate response on occasion, it's not when a "numismatic expert" in your opinion is trying to make a counter-point. Besides Fish, the guy isn't even debating numis to numis, he's talking ASEs, pure bulk bullion exclusively tied to spot in which he intends on buying food and water with when "SHTF". Not a very compelling "numismatic" argument...IMO
Thank you ... you said it very well man. I just deleted what I was about to post.
What even astonishes me even more is the fact that this poster was revealed as an "expert" ... wow is all I can say to that. speechless.
Well I'm done wasting my time with alleged "experts" ... now I will just spend a few seconds to find the "ignore" button in this forum
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