Transfer to more libertarian system?

[nonrecourse]

If you want to change the world look in the mirror. It all starts with you the singular. Mohandas Gandhi scared the $hit out of the South Africans and he run rings around the Brits. All because of his concept of satyagraha. Think and not only grow rich but improve the world through your actions.

Kind Regards
non recourse

 

[renovator]

How would people feel about state provided services derived from other inputs.

E.g. We currently pay a massive dole bill with tax money, at the same time fork out even more money to keep prisoners locked up. Why not put the crims to work growing tucker, and hand out food parcels to the unemployed rather than cash.

Kinda feels like when you stand in front of a fence and can't tell if you're fenced in or fenced out. We live free, but this only gives us the right to work and support those who have "lost" their freedom.

I think after the social welfare support systems we have come used to over past decades the libertarian model of govt only really providing defence might be a bit outdated.

I'm sure if you took into account people's basic needs and the infrastructure already built and in govt hands a direction satisfying both libertarian ideals and a modern social responsibility could be achievable.

Govt doesn't need to meddle and micro manage people's lives, but there could be room to provide a level of support. There is a lot of empty ground between the current nanny state and an ideological libertarian paradise.

I think without the libertarian direction current systems much crash. The funding is not stable long term to spend ourselves into this giant hole wiping people's backsides. Without social direction changes that are nessicary can't gain traction. There's too many people out there indoctrinated in the current system. I'm seeing the only solution as some middle ground discussions and work towards a population that doesn't need their backside wiped. Not a simply you're on your own now, more of an intermediate step...... The pull ups phase of teaching our citizens to wipe their own arse.

Good post rinchin this is more like what i think MAY be the solution . Small steps towards the end goal while not disadvantaging anyone .

I think modern social responsibility is the thorn in the side of libertarianism. Its a shame most of the posters here are not thinking broad enough to take into account those social reponsibilities that the 21st century has evolved into .

 

[renovator]

How about I take to your idiot head with a shovel Reno?

Action enough for you?

I'd prefer a piece of 4x2 (preferably softwood radiata pine or douglas fir ) would be nice so it leaves the imprint of my head on it :lol:

Wrong action AGAIN !!!! that action will do nothing for libertarianism .....keep focused on the end game man ..

 

[Auspm]

How about I take to your idiot head with a shovel Reno?

Action enough for you?

I'd prefer a piece of 4x2 (preferably softwood radiata pine or douglas fir ) would be nice so it leaves the imprint of my head on it :lol:

Wrong action AGAIN !!!! that action will do nothing for libertarianism .....keep focused on the end game man ..

Oh but I am Reno.... I am....

The status quo is already collapsing under the rot of it's own weight. It's only a matter of time before it all crumbles and people sit around pointing fingers on why nothing was done.

I am absolutely taking 'action' here, whether you want to see it or not.

I'm abandoning the model of the status quo, freeing my thought, starving the consumer and debt beast, taking my wealth out of the system.

In other words, I am being that 'change' I want to see in the world.

You keep telling people that the only action you can take is to simply become part of the system and play the game better than other people.

I think this is the exact attitude and mindset that needs to die in order for real change to be on the table.

Are you familiar with the Chris Duane and the Sons of Liberty Academy?

That's where MY mindset is Reno - the polar opposite of what you advocate.

You think you're an absolute genius because you played a rigged game and won, like a gambler who wins the jackpot at a casino table and thinks they're so clever because they can count cards and beat the house.

I'm talking about having the insight not to step into the casino in the first place and finding my own path, based on my own values and morality.

 

[renovator]

The actions you need to be doing is organising rallies, picketing the banks ,aproaching your local member of parliament etc to REALLY make a difference . but you do none of those things preferring to spend your free time metal detecting parks .

Maybe start a website for like minded people & spam it until you get the word out until you get enough to do the above mentioned things .

Big changes are made by people who make the conscious choice to actually DO something .I dont consider posting on the internet on a precious metals forum the ideal platform .

A mindset is one thing, deliberate actions are another .Why dont you become a real legend instead of a legend in your own mind

20 or 30 people picketing or having a rally in the cbd will make the news & reach millions . But as usual i dont think you have the balls to put your theory into action .....prove me wrong i would love to eat humble pie .


From little things big things grow

 

[Auspm]

The actions you need to be doing is organising rallies, picketing the banks ,aproaching your local member of parliament etc to REALLY make a difference . but you do none of those things preferring to spend your free time metal detecting parks .

Maybe start a website for like minded people & spam it until you get the word out until you get enough to do the above mentioned things .

Big changes are made by people who make the conscious choice to actually DO something .I dont consider posting on the internet on a precious metals forum the ideal platform .

A mindset is one thing, deliberate actions are another .Why dont you become a real legend instead of a legend in your own mind

20 or 30 people picketing or having a rally in the cbd will make the news & reach millions . But as usual i dont think you have the balls to put your theory into action .....prove me wrong i would love to eat humble pie .


From little things big things grow

That's absolute horseshit Reno.

I'll give you two practical reasons why your 'advice' is worthless :

Ron Paul and Occupy Wallstreet.

Both went down the route you tout as the 'action of change' and it went nowhere.

When will you work it out that you CANNOT change the system with the same consciousness that created it?

This is where YOU failed in the end. You still honestly believe you can be an agent of change in the system they control.

It's like trying to explain the concept of quadratic equations to someone who doesn't have a grasp of the multiplication table yet.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

I'm too getting sick of fighting the system and trying to change the unchangeable.

I have quit listening to Alex Jones :lol:

whose are you listening to now then?

Kochi?

 

[Ernster]

whose are you listening to now then?

Kochi?

Sure....his not as bad as some :lol:

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

The actions you need to be doing is organising rallies, picketing the banks ,aproaching your local member of parliament etc to REALLY make a difference . but you do none of those things preferring to spend your free time metal detecting parks .

Maybe start a website for like minded people & spam it until you get the word out until you get enough to do the above mentioned things .

Big changes are made by people who make the conscious choice to actually DO something .I dont consider posting on the internet on a precious metals forum the ideal platform .

A mindset is one thing, deliberate actions are another .Why dont you become a real legend instead of a legend in your own mind

20 or 30 people picketing or having a rally in the cbd will make the news & reach millions . But as usual i dont think you have the balls to put your theory into action .....prove me wrong i would love to eat humble pie .


From little things big things grow

That's absolute horseshit Reno.

I'll give you two practical reasons why your 'advice' is worthless :

Ron Paul and Occupy Wallstreet.

Both went down the route you tout as the 'action of change' and it went nowhere.

When will you work it out that you CANNOT change the system with the same consciousness that created it?

http://im.wk.io/images/v/56405e/let-them-drink-champagne.jpeg

This is where YOU failed in the end. You still honestly believe you can be an agent of change in the system they control.

It's like trying to explain the concept of quadratic equations to someone who doesn't have a grasp of the multiplication table yet.

[rant]
the only way to defeat statism/satinism is to starve the barstad beast!

Currently we all "pay taxes" - which is a euphemism really for funding your own downfall and eventual demise.
I will resist this rotten system as i can and when i can with everything at my disposal. It may not be much, but no dole bludger SOB is going to be sitting on his arse living off my money if i have any say about it.
If that means i'll eventually have to emigrate then so be it!

I despise the system that has produced so many zombies who cannot think for themselves and who multiply daily like blue-arsed flies.

[/rant]

 

[Auspm]

Oh but you're not doing ENOUGH YKY!

Where's your picket? Where's your protest submission?

I've got it, go to Canberra and light yourself on fire!

You know, the sort of thing no one has done before and according to Reno, works a charm!


Oh, wait a minute...



Like I said, I AM taking affirmative action with non compliance where I can.

You don't have to start a war with the people who own the police, military and judicial system to make a point and more so, it doesn't work anyway as it's been proven time and again.

Try and fight these people head on and you just play straight into their hands. They OWN this place and only the thick heads out there still believe they can overthrow a corrupt system with protest marches and pickets.

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT! WAKE UP FFS!

I think some certain acid brained hippies here are still stuck back in the 60s on how to stage a good protest against tyranny and corruption.

A shame so many of them gave up and opted to join in the plunder instead and admonish today's kids.

Fkn sellout hypocrites!

There IS another way to bring change and it doesn't require the sort of methods those who tried and failed with to bring it about.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXdaSutQilk[/youtube]

Gerald Celente has the right way of looking at a REAL revolution that will make a difference.

What he talks about and advocates here and in other discussions, I have already adopted myself.

I buy local, I don't vote, I speak out about injustice, I take my money out of the system, I avoid debt, I don't eat corporate shit.

Simple solutions and ideas that lead by example and are smart ways of combating a problem when you're a disarmed citizen.

You stand and advocate this on the steps of parliament or on TV and you'll get laughed out of the joint. It's been tried and done.

The only real way this will change is if you decide to be part of that 20% solution and lead by example.


So those who tell me what to think, what to say, how to act, what I should do can honestly kiss my arse because I'm not listening.

 

[CriticalSilver]

I thought it was only 10% before a tipping point occured in the popular consciousness

"When the number of committed opinion holders is below 10 percent, there is no visible progress in the spread of ideas. It would literally take the amount of time comparable to the age of the universe for this size group to reach the majority," said SCNARC Director Boleslaw Szymanski, the Claire and Roland Schmitt Distinguished Professor at Rensselaer. "Once that number grows above 10 percent, the idea spreads like flame."


http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2902

 

[Auspm]

I thought it was only 10% before a tipping point occured in the popular consciousness

"When the number of committed opinion holders is below 10 percent, there is no visible progress in the spread of ideas. It would literally take the amount of time comparable to the age of the universe for this size group to reach the majority," said SCNARC Director Boleslaw Szymanski, the Claire and Roland Schmitt Distinguished Professor at Rensselaer. "Once that number grows above 10 percent, the idea spreads like flame."

http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2902

Can't really comment on specific numbers, 20% is the number that Gerald has talked about.

I think we have to consider the social media effect here. It's the first time in human history that we've been able to share a global consciousness virtually in real time, so it's going to be hard to say just how many are required for a shift in consciousness is required for it to occur.

Needless to say though, one the idea DOES catch on, that's it.

What makes this change inevitable though is the state of the international economy. What is set in motion now cannot be stopped, only slowed and the propaganda machine is working in overtime to try and stem the tide.

"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."

 

[CriticalSilver]

It would be interested to see how long the established form of authority and control over the population would remain without the different forms of media or mind altering drugs in the water supply.

 

[renovator]

The actions you need to be doing is organising rallies, picketing the banks ,aproaching your local member of parliament etc to REALLY make a difference . but you do none of those things preferring to spend your free time metal detecting parks .

Maybe start a website for like minded people & spam it until you get the word out until you get enough to do the above mentioned things .

Big changes are made by people who make the conscious choice to actually DO something .I dont consider posting on the internet on a precious metals forum the ideal platform .

A mindset is one thing, deliberate actions are another .Why dont you become a real legend instead of a legend in your own mind

20 or 30 people picketing or having a rally in the cbd will make the news & reach millions . But as usual i dont think you have the balls to put your theory into action .....prove me wrong i would love to eat humble pie .


From little things big things grow

That's absolute horseshit Reno.

I'll give you two practical reasons why your 'advice' is worthless :

Ron Paul and Occupy Wallstreet.

Both went down the route you tout as the 'action of change' and it went nowhere.

When will you work it out that you CANNOT change the system with the same consciousness that created it?

http://im.wk.io/images/v/56405e/let-them-drink-champagne.jpeg

This is where YOU failed in the end. You still honestly believe you can be an agent of change in the system they control.

It's like trying to explain the concept of quadratic equations to someone who doesn't have a grasp of the multiplication table yet.

Revolutions might start by talking but always ends with the people hitting the streets . Thats the FACTS dumbarse . So stop thinking your right .... YOUR WRONG !!!

 

[dickmojo]

Liberty is just too unpopular. The information triad of media + academia + entertainment industries are just so staunchly opposed to having people being granted their rightful liberties. Look at the furor that has stirred up today with the media regarding Campbell Newman's fantastic plan to make voting optional, not compulsory.0

I mean, what a great idea, what a step forward for liberty, yet the media and academics andthe PM and everyone has come out and slammed it!~

Anyone living in Queensland knows how much hatred Campbell Newman has already been subjected to, just for trying to implement a Libertarian policy platform. He was elected with a huge mandate for change, and so he took decisive steps to shrink the size of government, in line with Libertarian principles, yet he has been rabidly attacked by the media and academics et al as if he was a grotesque monster.

Its actually really disturbing to me to see the hatred that the influential information triad has for the concepts and principles of liberty.

 

[Auspm]

Revolutions might start by talking but always ends with the people hitting the streets . Thats the FACTS dumbarse . So stop thinking your right .... YOUR WRONG !!!

Orly?

Revolutions can take many forms. If you think the next one will be the same as the last, it would explain why you decided to sell out.

Like I said, your 'example' is nothing more than to adopt the system and laugh at others contesting it.

I can't take you seriously in the slightest.

Go away old man, you've nothing of value to add here.

 

[hawkeye]

Liberty is just too unpopular. The information triad of media + academia + entertainment industries are just so staunchly opposed to having people being granted their rightful liberties. Look at the furor that has stirred up today with the media regarding Campbell Newman's fantastic plan to make voting optional, not compulsory.0

I mean, what a great idea, what a step forward for liberty, yet the media and academics andthe PM and everyone has come out and slammed it!~

Anyone living in Queensland knows how much hatred Campbell Newman has already been subjected to, just for trying to implement a Libertarian policy platform. He was elected with a huge mandate for change, and so he took decisive steps to shrink the size of government, in line with Libertarian principles, yet he has been rabidly attacked by the media and academics et al as if he was a grotesque monster.

Its actually really disturbing to me to see the hatred that the influential information triad has for the concepts and principles of liberty.

But none of this should be surprising. You are threatening these people's privileged way of life. And they do feel threatened. If it's all hopeless on our part, why would they be so worried? Wait until the "libertarian agenda" is a threat to the average Australian's way of life. Then we'll know we are getting somewhere. We are in the being ignored phase still atm.

I think more people are seeing through the charade. I mean, you can't discern anything intelligible from watching MSM. Even when there is truth it is surrounded by so much propaganda that the noise drowns out the signal.

And it's not like you need most people to change the agenda. You only need maybe up to 10% of the population out there exposing the lies and untruths and putting forward reality and truth. That's why all the people who aren't interested don't matter and there''s no need to waste energy trying to convince them. You get the people that are interested and eventually they will be enough, because the existing system is unsustainable and the more forward-thinking members of society will be exploring the options out there. That's the way the world has always worked.

 

[Auspm]

But none of this should be surprising. You are threatening these people's privileged way of life. And they do feel threatened. If it's all hopeless on our part, why would they be so worried? Wait until the "libertarian agenda" is a threat to the average Australian's way of life. Then we'll know we are getting somewhere. We are in the being ignored phase still atm.

Too right they're threatened.

Look how much shit you cop here on this very forum if you don't roll over and play the rigged game!

 

[bordsilver]

Liberty is just too unpopular. The information triad of media + academia + entertainment industries are just so staunchly opposed to having people being granted their rightful liberties. Look at the furor that has stirred up today with the media regarding Campbell Newman's fantastic plan to make voting optional, not compulsory.0

I mean, what a great idea, what a step forward for liberty, yet the media and academics andthe PM and everyone has come out and slammed it!~

Anyone living in Queensland knows how much hatred Campbell Newman has already been subjected to, just for trying to implement a Libertarian policy platform. He was elected with a huge mandate for change, and so he took decisive steps to shrink the size of government, in line with Libertarian principles, yet he has been rabidly attacked by the media and academics et al as if he was a grotesque monster.

Its actually really disturbing to me to see the hatred that the influential information triad has for the concepts and principles of liberty.

But none of this should be surprising. You are threatening these people's privileged way of life. And they do feel threatened. If it's all hopeless on our part, why would they be so worried? Wait until the "libertarian agenda" is a threat to the average Australian's way of life. Then we'll know we are getting somewhere. We are in the being ignored phase still atm.

I think more people are seeing through the charade. I mean, you can't discern anything intelligible from watching MSM. Even when there is truth it is surrounded by so much propaganda that the noise drowns out the signal.

And it's not like you need most people to change the agenda. You only need maybe up to 10% of the population out there exposing the lies and untruths and putting forward reality and truth. That's why all the people who aren't interested don't matter and there''s no need to waste energy trying to convince them. You get the people that are interested and eventually they will be enough, because the existing system is unsustainable and the more forward-thinking members of society will be exploring the options out there. That's the way the world has always worked.

:lol: You guys make me oscillate randomly between hope and despair (not the reno's and B.A.D.'s on here, but the sensible people). In the meantime I'll keep plodding along trying to teach my family and friends the real right from wrong etc and just try to stay on message - they'll get there eventually (or not).

 

[renovator]

Revolutions might start by talking but always ends with the people hitting the streets . Thats the FACTS dumbarse . So stop thinking your right .... YOUR WRONG !!!

Orly?

Revolutions can take many forms. If you think the next one will be the same as the last, it would explain why you decided to sell out.

Like I said, your 'example' is nothing more than to adopt the system and laugh at others contesting it.

I can't take you seriously in the slightest.

Go away old man, you've nothing of value to add here.

All major revolutions are when people actually do something or its not a revolution its a conversation see the difference ?

your a highly intelligent person but have no commonsense .....an educated idiot is what i & many call people like you . . You could do lots with your life & intelligence but its wasted on computer games & posting whacked out crap on here . Do something with your life son. I'm an old man so i'l call you son or would you prefer "boy ".....ok boy it is : .So boy when you grow a set & they drop into position you COULD make a difference. Instead of justifying your lack of action with a long winded post that most here can see straight through.

You CAN make a difference you just wont try ...your apathy is astounding

If i was so riled up about something i take action ...actions are when you move your arms & legs in unison not just your lips or typing fingers . My brothers favourite saying to his kids when they were young was " If your arms & legs moved as fast as your lips it would be done by now " This saying is apt for you . You could have achieved many things in the couple of years ive been on the forum but you have done nothing ,nada , zero , zilch with your life but constantly complained about the status quo.. You really are no better off than you were two years ago & thats a bit dissapointing to watch even if i dont particularly agree with you i would like to see you better your own & your family's life .Dont try to tell me you have i have a very good memory & i watch & read with gusto to lots of peoples posts & i know you still have no spare cash .

You have it set in your mind that you cant make a difference & thats the first hurdle you need to overcome . If i thought i couldnt do it i would have achieved nothing in my life . I have always had the can do attitude sometimes foolishly kidding myself but im a finisher even if i have to stop midstream & eat a healthy dose of humble pie .& im sure i will taste the pie again in due time ....but the thing is at least i gave it a shot .....thats what matters . Trying & failing is better than never trying at all .The lessons learnt from the humble pie stops are what builds character something i think you need . I say this because you still toss your fruit at me & swear & abuse me . Someone with a bit of character wouldnt let it affect them ...

You need to loosen up a bit & keep your cool boy .Good decisions never come from anger ..

You have had more good advice from members here than anyone else on the forum & throw it back in their face. saying you dont need anyones help ...Everyone needs others help at some stage . .