We Got totally cleaned out whilst away O/S

[dragafem]

I'm sorry to hear all that. Are you guys in australia allows to own firearms in your houses in case of a break in while you are at home?

nop, u'll need a firearm license to buy one. even then, if u shot someone during a break in, u'll be liable for the injuries caused to the other party (unless its for self-defence)

Sorry, poor advice - shoot someone in your own home in Australia under any circumstance, expect charges against you.

exactly,so where is the self-defense ?

 

[Stoic Phoenix]

exactly,so where is the self-defense ?

Why does self defence have to start or end with a firearm?

 

[dragafem]

I may have missed it in the OP and I'm sorry for your loss but I'm a little confused as to exactly what you're selling in this thread...?

u might need to read the OP again and try to pay attention this time :/

 

[dragafem]

I'm sorry to hear all that. Are you guys in australia allows to own firearms in your houses in case of a break in while you are at home?

nop, u'll need a firearm license to buy one. even then, if u shot someone during a break in, u'll be liable for the injuries caused to the other party (unless its for self-defence)

yes u need a license and very hard to get.even when u have it u need to store the ammo and the gun separately all the time and there are numerous checks on u if u comply with all the regulations...

 

[Ghost]

I may have missed it in the OP and I'm sorry for your loss but I'm a little confused as to exactly what you're selling in this thread...?

u might need to read the OP again and try to pay attention this time :/

Yes you're right, the classified section probably is the best place for tales of woe and regret...

 

[phrenzy]

I may have missed it in the OP and I'm sorry for your loss but I'm a little confused as to exactly what you're selling in this thread...?

u might need to read the OP again and try to pay attention this time :/

Yes you're right, the classified section probably is the best place for tales of woe and regret...

Its The best place to post about things that might turn up in this section at a later date. His point was to ask people to look out for the bars for sale.

 

[SilverDJ]

Sorry to hear about this
Odds on it was completely targeted.

Out of morbid curiosity, can you post a photo of the safe that's been hacked to bits?
I'm very interested to see what it takes to rip into a 500kg safe?
Also, what brand and model?

 

[Miksture]

Sorry to hear about this, the feeling of having your home violated can be worse than the dollar loss.

It seems you did everything right regarding security, if someone really wants to steal your stuff you can only do so much to protect it.

Storing valuables offsite may work for some people but if you are actively trading or have jewelry that you wear often then this is not convenient, to say nothing of the additional costs involved and the risk of not being able to access your stack when you want it.

In addition to these break-ins I am aware of three coin club members who have also been the targets of very particular thieves over the past year, leaving other valuables and taking only the precious metals. All in the Brisbane area.

We are in North Brisbane so I will keep an eye out for them and see if anything gets offered to our coin club members.

Did they target people with large collections specifically?

 

[The Crow]

Sorry, poor advice - shoot someone in your own home in Australia under any circumstance, expect charges against you.

Like this guy: http://www.news.com.au/national/man-who-shot-intruder-is-real-victim/story-e6frfkvr-1226093749448

Good luck to the prosecution to try and convince a jury to convict him, not going to happen. I doubt it would even make trial.
Any reasonable jury is going to side with the home owner during a home invasion under most reasonable circumstances. Add defending your family into the mix and it's likely you'd never see trial.
We have new home invasion laws for a reason, the community demanded it.
Anyone surprising you in your own home is a clear case to fear for your life and that of your family, that is justification enough to use any means necessary to defend yourself.
But yes, having a gun beside your bed (illegal anyway) or a baseball bat ready for an intruder is not a good look.

Sorry, but case evidence would suggest that any home owner is potentially in deep if they hurt "home invaders". Some years ago a fellow in Sydney was convicted of using excessive force for hitting someone in his home with a bat, and two fellows in Adelaide were charged (I think one convicted but the other not) when stopping a fellow from attacking a woman.

If you're not prepared to dispose of the body, don't hit them seems to be the rule.

 

[Jislizard]

Sorry to hear about this, the feeling of having your home violated can be worse than the dollar loss.

It seems you did everything right regarding security, if someone really wants to steal your stuff you can only do so much to protect it.

Storing valuables offsite may work for some people but if you are actively trading or have jewelry that you wear often then this is not convenient, to say nothing of the additional costs involved and the risk of not being able to access your stack when you want it.

In addition to these break-ins I am aware of three coin club members who have also been the targets of very particular thieves over the past year, leaving other valuables and taking only the precious metals. All in the Brisbane area.

We are in North Brisbane so I will keep an eye out for them and see if anything gets offered to our coin club members.

Did they target people with large collections specifically?

I know of people with larger collections and people with more valuable collections who have not been targeted. The ones with the larger and more expensive collections did most of their buying at auctions. The ones who got broken in to did most of their buying and selling at local markets. All three were running stalls at markets and buying and selling from a large number of members of the public, rather than just private sales between stackers.

Of course, I know several traders at markets who haven't been broken in to and they are in the same area.

 

[willrocks]

If you're not prepared to dispose of the body, don't hit them seems to be the rule.

In my opinion it's better to be alive and answering questions than not. So whatever that takes.

 

[SpacePete]

Like this guy: http://www.news.com.au/national/man-who-shot-intruder-is-real-victim/story-e6frfkvr-1226093749448

Good luck to the prosecution to try and convince a jury to convict him, not going to happen. I doubt it would even make trial.
Any reasonable jury is going to side with the home owner during a home invasion under most reasonable circumstances. Add defending your family into the mix and it's likely you'd never see trial.
We have new home invasion laws for a reason, the community demanded it.
Anyone surprising you in your own home is a clear case to fear for your life and that of your family, that is justification enough to use any means necessary to defend yourself.
But yes, having a gun beside your bed (illegal anyway) or a baseball bat ready for an intruder is not a good look.

Sorry, but case evidence would suggest that any home owner is potentially in deep if they hurt "home invaders". Some years ago a fellow in Sydney was convicted of using excessive force for hitting someone in his home with a bat, and two fellows in Adelaide were charged (I think one convicted but the other not) when stopping a fellow from attacking a woman.

If you're not prepared to dispose of the body, don't hit them seems to be the rule.

Exactly. This is very important to remember and there are a number of legal precedents.

The key point to remember is that you will not only be defending yourself against the attackers, you will also be defending yourself against the the attackers lawyers should they be injured or worse. Culpability falls on the victim of an attack or home invasion if it can be argued that excessive force was used.

And a VERY IMPORTANT point regarding home robberies for those of us in NSW:

"s420 of the NSW Crimes Act explicitly states that self-defence is not available as a defence to murder if death is inflicted to prevent criminal trespass."

Self-defence and the protection of property

Self-defence as a principle is available for acts in defence of property. However, use of lethal force is probably not justified under the test that Dawson and Toohey established in Zecevic. In that case, the High Court found that the only justification for the use of lethal force is under circumstances where the threat was such that the person held a reasonable apprehension that death or serious harm may be the result of the attack.

Legislation that refers to use of force in defending of property, such as s 267 and s 274-278 of the Criminal Code 1899 (QLD) ,states that any use of force in the defence of property must be both reasonable and necessary. As such, force resulting in death or grievous bodily harm is largely prohibited. Please note that this is only a very general guide to the laws of self-defence in Australia, and does not purport to comprehensively address the issue. Please seek legal counsel, should you require it.

 

[Newtosilver]

Basically if someone is stealing your TV that is not a reason to kill them, if they come at you with a knife and you kill them you would be cleared.

 

[bubblebobble2]

Like this guy: http://www.news.com.au/national/man-who-shot-intruder-is-real-victim/story-e6frfkvr-1226093749448

Good luck to the prosecution to try and convince a jury to convict him, not going to happen. I doubt it would even make trial.
Any reasonable jury is going to side with the home owner during a home invasion under most reasonable circumstances. Add defending your family into the mix and it's likely you'd never see trial.
We have new home invasion laws for a reason, the community demanded it.
Anyone surprising you in your own home is a clear case to fear for your life and that of your family, that is justification enough to use any means necessary to defend yourself.
But yes, having a gun beside your bed (illegal anyway) or a baseball bat ready for an intruder is not a good look.

Sorry, but case evidence would suggest that any home owner is potentially in deep if they hurt "home invaders". Some years ago a fellow in Sydney was convicted of using excessive force for hitting someone in his home with a bat, and two fellows in Adelaide were charged (I think one convicted but the other not) when stopping a fellow from attacking a woman.

If you're not prepared to dispose of the body, don't hit them seems to be the rule.

Yup, that's the rule alright.... thanks to our "well-declared" constitution.. might as well make the home invaders cookies and milk....and show them where you stash all your goodies so they'll be out from your home in a jiff..

 

[SpacePete]

Basically if someone is stealing your TV that is not a reason to kill them, if they come at you with a knife and you kill them you would be cleared.

The difficulty though is that it's often not easy for you to quickly assess the motives of a home invader, especially if adrenaline is flooding your system. Most people would react in fear if surprised at home by an invader, some people would freeze, but others would instantly go on the offensive especially if you have family in the house and millions of years of evolved self-preservation reflexes kick in.

Regardless of what the state would prefer, we are not a species that will lay down and die so easily. We are not sheep.

 

[Ouch]

Basically if someone is stealing your TV that is not a reason to kill them, if they come at you with a knife and you kill them you would be cleared.

So can someone be cleared by claiming the intruder was trying to kill them with a TV?

 

[sammysilver]

Basically if someone is stealing your TV that is not a reason to kill them, if they come at you with a knife and you kill them you would be cleared.

So can someone be cleared by claiming the intruder was trying to kill them with a TV?

The networks have been doing it to us for years.

 

[rbaggio]

.

 

[otmoto]

Work in the precious metals industry on the coast, will keep an eye out and inform other big bullion houses of this..
All the best, and hope you find your items!

 

[Newtosilver]

Basically if someone is stealing your TV that is not a reason to kill them, if they come at you with a knife and you kill them you would be cleared.

The difficulty though is that it's often not easy for you to quickly assess the motives of a home invader, especially if adrenaline is flooding your system. Most people would react in fear if surprised at home by an invader, some people would freeze, but others would instantly go on the offensive especially if you have family in the house and millions of years of evolved self-preservation reflexes kick in.

Regardless of what the state would prefer, we are not a species that will lay down and die so easily. We are not sheep.

Actually you will find very few people will stand and fight in a fight / flight scenario, most will flee if given the opportunity. You have a fairly high proportion who if frightened / startled act very irrationally and do not think straight (which is why you get a lot of people who are armed with guns who shoot relatives who have gone for a toilet break in the middle of the night) the other thing that happens is they just freeze and do nothing as you mentioned.

Very, very few people actually think clearly and become "The hunter", everyone thinks they will be the hero like in the movies but I can tell you know it does not happen. If you are trained and have spent 100, 200 or more hours doing it people still stuff it up badly.

If you have a firearm in the house a loved one is more likely to get shot than it being used for "self defence"

Want something for self defence get a chainsaw, if you start a chainsaw in your house at 3am no matter who it is they will leave ASAP and it will wake everyone within 100 meters of your house

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pK92JqSZoNo