We Got totally cleaned out whilst away O/S

^^^
Used to do that as a "party trick" when 20-something (i.e. nearly a lifetime ago). Remove chain from saw bar, start up saw. Worked particularly well on non-country persons. Real country people realised pretty quickly that there was no chain, just an idiot with an engine.
Always wondered what would happen if there turned out to be a "hero" in the house .....
 
Kawa said:
Be advised that I had my 500KG safe oxyed and jackhammered whilst away on Biz over seas.Just got back tonight.
About 50 K in Wifes Jewellery and about 1700 oz of premium and rare silver bars.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Kawa, I feel for you my man. I walked in on a burglary in progress when I was 12. The guy got some cheap jewelry and a pillowcase. The only thing we really missed was my great grandfather's NYPD billy club. Shame when the very poor steal from the kinda poor.
I am also absolutely bamboozled by the firearm thought process on display. I assume this is the prevailing thought there. I live in a state that has the "Castle Doctrine". If someone has broken into your house you have the absolute right to shoot him. I know for a fact that the first 8 houses on my block are all lawful firearms owners.

http://www.sled.sc.gov/ProtectionOfPeople.aspx?MenuID=CWP

I hope they find the bastards that did this. I know where I would pour the first oz of molten silver. -bw
 
Newtosilver said:
SilverPete said:
Newtosilver said:
Basically if someone is stealing your TV that is not a reason to kill them, if they come at you with a knife and you kill them you would be cleared.
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The difficulty though is that it's often not easy for you to quickly assess the motives of a home invader, especially if adrenaline is flooding your system. Most people would react in fear if surprised at home by an invader, some people would freeze, but others would instantly go on the offensive especially if you have family in the house and millions of years of evolved self-preservation reflexes kick in.

Regardless of what the state would prefer, we are not a species that will lay down and die so easily. We are not sheep.
Click to expand...

Actually you will find very few people will stand and fight in a fight / flight scenario, most will flee if given the opportunity. You have a fairly high proportion who if frightened / startled act very irrationally and do not think straight (which is why you get a lot of people who are armed with guns who shoot relatives who have gone for a toilet break in the middle of the night) the other thing that happens is they just freeze and do nothing as you mentioned.

Very, very few people actually think clearly and become "The hunter", everyone thinks they will be the hero like in the movies but I can tell you know it does not happen. If you are trained and have spent 100, 200 or more hours doing it people still stuff it up badly.

If you have a firearm in the house a loved one is more likely to get shot than it being used for "self defence"

Want something for self defence get a chainsaw, if you start a chainsaw in your house at 3am no matter who it is they will leave ASAP and it will wake everyone within 100 meters of your house :)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pK92JqSZoNo
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Agree on the issue with firearms, but this was in the context of Australia where it is highly unlikely you'd have a gun in the house. Of course there are exceptions, but the vast majority of suburban householders will not have a firearm.

The point here is that, when startled by an intruder, it is unlikely an untrained individual will respond with mental clarity and rationally assess the situation in light of existing legal precedent. With heightened adrenaline, a powerful instinctive reaction is far more likely. That may mean running, hiding, freezing or, if you come face to face with someone in your house at night that you suddenly realize is a stranger, lashing out reflexively with a strength you did not realize you had. This is not a hero fantasy, it is the effect of fear and a very sudden adrenalin spike have on overriding immediate rational decision.
 
The Crow said:
If you're not prepared to dispose of the body, don't hit them seems to be the rule.
Click to expand...
One saying some of my overseas contacts use is "Better judged by twelve, than carried by six"


willrocks said:
In my opinion it's better to be alive and answering questions than not. So whatever that takes.
Click to expand...
Along the simular lines as above, another saying I have used often from overseas contacts is "I have a gun [this can be interchanged with any firearm] and a back hoe, and I know how to use both"

SilverPete said:
others would instantly go on the offensive especially if you have family in the house and millions of years of evolved self-preservation reflexes kick in
Click to expand...
Its interesting in my experiences most people freeze up, some run, those who fight are definitely the minority, and those who do at least in my experiences are those who have been trained to, either through the military/police, etc or some martial arts teach the same kind of thing (Krav Maga for instance). The other thing that these people seem to have in common is their use of a tactic called "Violence of Action", but as I have said these are just my experiences and insights.
 
ShadowPeo said:
Its interesting in my experiences most people freeze up, some run, those who fight are definitely the minority, and those who do at least in my experiences are those who have been trained to, either through the military/police, etc or some martial arts teach the same kind of thing (Krav Maga for instance). The other thing that these people seem to have in common is their use of a tactic called "Violence of Action", but as I have said these are just my experiences and insights.
Click to expand...

Fortunately I don't have any experience confronting homeowners in home burglary situations.
 
SilverPete said:
Agree on the issue with firearms, but this was in the context of Australia where it is highly unlikely you'd have a gun in the house. Of course there are exceptions, but the vast majority of suburban householders will not have a firearm.
Click to expand...

Even if they did you are AFAIK not allowed to have it outside of an unlocked safe, and AFAIK also not allowed to keep the gun and ammunition together.
You are not allowed to keep a firearm for self defense in this country, it is not a legitimate excuse to own one.
 
The Crow said:
Sorry, but case evidence would suggest that any home owner is potentially in deep if they hurt "home invaders".
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Really?
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/1998-109.pdf

Part 2 Use of force to prevent attack
5 Safety within homes
Parliament expressly declares that it is the public policy of the
State of New South Wales that its citizens have a right to enjoy
absolute safety from attack within dwelling-houses from
intruders.
6 Self-defence
An occupant of a dwelling-house may act in self-defence against
an intruder if the occupant believes on reasonable grounds that it
is necessary to do so.
7 Defence of other persons
An occupant of a dwelling-house may act in defence of any other
person in the dwelling-house against an intruder if the occupant
believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary to do so.
8 Defence of property
An occupant of a dwelling-house may act in defence of any
property of. or within. the dwelling-house against an intruder if
the occupant believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary
to do so.
9 Reasonable grounds
Whether grounds are reasonable grounds for the purposes of
section 6, 7 or 8 is to be determined having regard to the belief of
the occupant. based on the circumstances as the occupant
perceived them to be.
10 Onus of proof in criminal proceedings
If in proceedings against an occupant of a dwelling-house the
occupant seeks to rely on the provisions of section 6, 7 or 8, the
prosecution has the onus of proving. beyond reasonable doubt:
(a) that the occupant did not have the belief alleged. or
(b) that the grounds for the occupant's belief were not
reasonable grounds.
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Pretty darn clear that in NSW you have the right to act in self defense if you believe you are under threat, and the onus is on the invader to prove otherwise.
Like I said, these new home invasion laws exist for a reason, the community demanded them because there were starting to see cases like you describe.
 
ShadowPeo said:
The Crow said:
If you're not prepared to dispose of the body, don't hit them seems to be the rule.
Click to expand...
One saying some of my overseas contacts use is "Better judged by twelve, than carried by six"


willrocks said:
In my opinion it's better to be alive and answering questions than not. So whatever that takes.
Click to expand...
Along the simular lines as above, another saying I have used often from overseas contacts is "I have a gun [this can be interchanged with any firearm] and a back hoe, and I know how to use both"

SilverPete said:
others would instantly go on the offensive especially if you have family in the house and millions of years of evolved self-preservation reflexes kick in
Click to expand...
Its interesting in my experiences most people freeze up, some run, those who fight are definitely the minority, and those who do at least in my experiences are those who have been trained to, either through the military/police, etc or some martial arts teach the same kind of thing (Krav Maga for instance). The other thing that these people seem to have in common is their use of a tactic called "Violence of Action", but as I have said these are just my experiences and insights.
Click to expand...

I have been in the security industry for well over 20 now and we like to call it " flight or fight syndrome "
Meaning most will run and some will stay and fight till the end, some people have it and most don't.

Unfortunately I have been put in a few situations where I had to protect either myself , people or property from thugs and in some cases it has turned out very violent but this happend while working for a security company while protected by company policy law. I hate violence but if push came to shove I would fight, especially if it was In my own home. But when it comes to being at home and if you hurt some one that has broken into your house its a complete different ball game there is no real law out there to protect you.

Edit to say it depends on the situation, it's a very Gray area.

Be carful all.
 
in this day and age the prosecutor will charge you and let the courts decide. you then need to spend vast sums of money and your life fighting the charge and you will never get that back. the system is too bias towards those who have nothing to lose and commit crimes.
 
It is HIGHLY likely that the perpetrators follow the discussions, regarding these burglaries on this site and the other PM related sites where these are discussed each time.

They may even offer their condolences each time as a registered member or they may just view these "open" threads as a Lurker.

Therefore I shake my head in utter disbelief that for each robbery condolence/discussion thread there are members that still indicate..or just come right and tell us all that they are storing metals at home.

These perpetrators are "professionals" and are obviously very good at what they do.......without people on PM forums making it easier for them :)
 
In our own home, we should enjoy the same standards as police that shoot unarmed civilians.
Remember the following and make sure it is in your statement to the police - "I feared for my life".
If your family was home, add "and the life of my family".

Unless you shot the intruder in the back as he was running away (or asked him to bite the curb before stomping on his neck), you should be fine.
 
smk762 said:
In our own home, we should enjoy the same standards as police that shoot unarmed civilians.
Remember the following and make sure it is in your statement to the police - "I feared for my life".
If your family was home, add "and the life of my family".

Unless you shot the intruder in the back as he was running away (or asked him to bite the curb before stomping on his neck), you should be fine.
Click to expand...
love the American history x reference
 
It's a long shot but ebay or gumtree could turn up something if you want to post a couple of the rarer bars and serial numbers. Also check the local pawn brokers
 
Gazza79 said:
But when it comes to being at home and if you hurt some one that has broken into your house its a complete different ball game there is no real law out there to protect you.
Click to expand...

Not so in NSW. The government passed home invasion laws some time back that protect home owners in self dense situations, as I posted above.
Never ever think twice about defending yourself in your own home if it comes to that.
You are also protected against defending other people in your home against home invaders.
 
smk762 said:
In our own home, we should enjoy the same standards as police that shoot unarmed civilians.
Remember the following and make sure it is in your statement to the police - "I feared for my life".
If your family was home, add "and the life of my family".
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. Always say you feared for your life. And quite frankly if you are startled by an intruder in your own home, most people would legitimately fear for their lives and those of their family.
 
SilverDJ said:
Gazza79 said:
But when it comes to being at home and if you hurt some one that has broken into your house its a complete different ball game there is no real law out there to protect you.
Click to expand...

Not so in NSW. The government passed home invasion laws some time back that protect home owners in self dense situations, as I posted above.
Never ever think twice about defending yourself in your own home if it comes to that.
You are also protected against defending other people in your home against home invaders.
Click to expand...

I posted this earlier:

"Section 420 of the NSW Crimes Act explicitly states that self-defence is not available as a defence to murder if death is inflicted to prevent criminal trespass."

Source (PDF): https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/P...978b859ca256b12001953ad/$FILE/b01-126-p03.pdf
 
Yeah, but the issue is fear.
I fear that I would live a life of torment, if I was responsible for taking someone's life.
Overridden, by the fear of not protecting my family if I didn't.
No regrets your honour !
 
All the discussion around self defence ignores the fact that none of these burgs occurred when someone was actually home.

Only difference firearms would have made would be an increase in the amount of stuff stolen.
 
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