True value of second hand bullion

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Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
RomanControl said:
I dont think he proved anything.
Assuming his examples werent cherry picked extremes to prove a point,
paying over spot for 2nd hand isnt always premium fluff.

The explanation for the difference is more likely a rarity in getting hold of silver at the time of those sales.
Which is a supply and demand thing and completely seperate issue.
You're not paying premium, you're paying a more realistic spot for the silver itself
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HUGH???!!!???

** uncharacteristically dumb expression ** :lol:
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Ill try to be clearer in my explanation just for you yippekiya

If spot is $10 and dealers sell nonnumismatics for $15 in Australia the ethos is the round or bar or whatever is worth $14.50 second hand

This doesnt seem to ever go down. Second hand, third hand or ever.

In USa it is more like $11

If we have a situation where spot price is artifically low and demand has stripped the market of 1 ounce rounds, then in USA you might pay $14.50 or more.

But this isnt a reflection of assumed premium value due to the cost of buying from a dealer, when the guy bought it 12 months ago.

Its a reflection of a truer spot price.

And a seperate issue

I'm sure we have that going on here too in different market conditions, but its irrelevant to the point I'm making.

Thanks luke, I dont care if Im insulted in jest, I have a thick skin.
Theres a particular guy here who uses the safety of the internet to be nasty and it gets a little boring.
 
RomanControl said:
If we have a situation where spot price is artifically low and demand has stripped the market of 1 ounce rounds, then in USA you might pay $14.50 or more.

But this isnt a reflection of assumed premium value due to the cost of buying from a dealer, when the guy bought it 12 months ago.

Its a reflection of a truer spot price.

And a seperate issue

I'm sure we have that going on here too in different market conditions, but its irrelevant to the point I'm making.
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Our market is different to the U.S. market.

A population of 310 million people can support more private mints than a population of 25 million can.

More private mints with inferior working conditions means more competition and lower prices because they're all prepared to go just that little bit lower to get people's business.

Ultimately, the quality suffers too, which is why "generic" U.S. made rounds tend to look like shit. If you're okay with buying shit provided it's cheap shit, that situation is ideal for you (as it obviously is for a lot of American stackers).
 
Maybe you forgetting the numismatic component whether it's truly justified or not. I'd happily pay slightly more for a rare generic round or a Panda etc. Even the plain Pamp bars can trade way above spot just because of what they are. Spot is just the starting point, consumer/collector demand for the item is where the premium comes into it. I personally have a soft spot (pun intended) for those loafy hand poured bars ala Majestic variety :)
 
LuckuLukeOnline to be perfectly honest I had no intention getting personal but life stresses coupled with a brutal game 1 performance by my beloved Canucks in addition to ludicrous repeated banter led me to lose my cool my apologies to you and the rest of the forum.
 
Big A.D. said:
RomanControl said:
If we have a situation where spot price is artifically low and demand has stripped the market of 1 ounce rounds, then in USA you might pay $14.50 or more.

But this isnt a reflection of assumed premium value due to the cost of buying from a dealer, when the guy bought it 12 months ago.

Its a reflection of a truer spot price.

And a seperate issue

I'm sure we have that going on here too in different market conditions, but its irrelevant to the point I'm making.
Click to expand...

Our market is different to the U.S. market.

A population of 310 million people can support more private mints than a population of 25 million can.

More private mints with inferior working conditions means more competition and lower prices because they're all prepared to go just that little bit lower to get people's business.

Ultimately, the quality suffers too, which is why "generic" U.S. made rounds tend to look like shit. If you're okay with buying shit provided it's cheap shit, that situation is ideal for you (as it obviously is for a lot of American stackers).
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I'd hardly call the Buffalo rounds sold by Gainesville Coins "shit". In fact I reckon they're bluddy good quality, good looking, and the purity is 999+ which is all you can ask for!
 
Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
.....................I'd hardly call the Buffalo rounds sold by Gainesville Coins "shit". In fact I reckon they're bluddy good quality, good looking, and the purity is 999+ which is all you can ask for!
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Totally agree with you on those rounds. I think they're are mighty good looking, even more so when I paid on average only 70c USD premium per coin. I think the gold buffalo is even better looking though. :P
 
Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
I'd hardly call the Buffalo rounds sold by Gainesville Coins "shit". In fact I reckon they're bluddy good quality, good looking, and the purity is 999+ which is all you can ask for!
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They're a privately minted generic version of the "real" .9999 Gold Buffalo made by the U.S. Mint (who themselves re-used the design from James Fraser's "buffalo nickle" from the early 1900s).

Yeah, it looks nice (and yes, I have one) but I just can't get over the laziness in ripping off the design.

I mean, how many generic rounds featuring a bald-headed eagle and a semi-official seal can you reasonably expect people to get excited about?
 
There's loads of crap Buffalo rounds out there - must be half a dozen mints producing them, some are absolutely crap mint/finish quality.

Others are really high quality.
 
spot price is shit paper.

just give me your price in $ and I will buy from you, no shit.

where is 1993 kooka freshly minted ones, if anyone want a cheaper product, can big group order for a re-mint :)

"Un-true premium of a second hand bullion"
 
Big A.D. said:
Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
I'd hardly call the Buffalo rounds sold by Gainesville Coins "shit". In fact I reckon they're bluddy good quality, good looking, and the purity is 999+ which is all you can ask for!
Click to expand...

They're a privately minted generic version of the "real" .9999 Gold Buffalo made by the U.S. Mint (who themselves re-used the design from James Fraser's "buffalo nickle" from the early 1900s).

Yeah, it looks nice (and yes, I have one) but I just can't get over the laziness in ripping off the design.

I mean, how many generic rounds featuring a bald-headed eagle and a semi-official seal can you reasonably expect people to get excited about?
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I get excited by:
1. the low markup over spot
2. the finish and look
3. the fact that its 999+ silver
4. the fact that its in an easily tradeable unit - 1 ounce - which in itself is worth a premium

All in all i reckon its the very best way of stacking silver!
 
This is what I'm talkin' about!!

1184_buff1.jpg


f.. A !!
 
I agree and i priced these at less than a dollar over spot at a us dealer that is sellling perth mint coins cheaper than the dealers here, so it cant be a shipping issue
 
lucky luke said:
Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
.....................I'd hardly call the Buffalo rounds sold by Gainesville Coins "shit". In fact I reckon they're bluddy good quality, good looking, and the purity is 999+ which is all you can ask for!
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you on those rounds. I think they're are mighty good looking, even more so when I paid on average only 70c USD premium per coin. I think the gold buffalo is even better looking though. :P
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Did you get the buffaloes in Australia? or the US
 
RomanControl said:
I agree and i priced these at less than a dollar over spot at a us dealer that is sellling perth mint coins cheaper than the dealers here, so it cant be a shipping issue
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Are you comparing the premium of buffalo rounds to Perth Mint coins?

Or are you saying that their Perth Mint coins are cheaper than dealers here?

If it's the first, duh.

If it's the second, I have seen Gainesville sell 1/10oz gold Rabbits for cheaper than wholesale price from Perth Mint locally last year during a massive sale.

The price was so good some dealers imported from Gainesville just to sell here locally because even after Fedex/UPS + customs fee it was still cheaper than buying from Perth Mint wholesale.

I have no idea how they do it but I assume since they buy tens of millions in metals monthly they have better leverage and get better prices from Perth Mint than your average local dealers (or they're running a loss leader).
 
this is getting off topic but
thats because its a monopoly, the economies of scale argument falls by the way side if theyre manufacturing in quantity to the us market
unless they have a mint over there with the local brand
 
OK I'll take another stab at this
The OP is ASSUMING bullion is a second hand product like a car or washing machine or a mobile phone ;)
IT'S NOT
IT'S A COMMODITY ,do you pay less for second hand shares because you bought them from a dealer & not in the original launch :D
A car can lose 20% as soon as you drive out the driveway = why
IT'S MOSTLY TAX ;)
Let's say you USE your bullion ,what do you do with it ,
Turn it into jewellery ,so is that jewellery worth less than the spot price because you used it :D






















































BULLION IS NOT A SECOND HAND PRODUCT :D
 
RomanControl said:
premium is
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Exactly!! The further away from the source you get the higher the premium. You are trying to escape an inevitability of the way the market has constructed itself. You live in the wrong physical location...but everyone around you has the same problem. You can try to get around it but we already did the math like three times in this thread and you just can't fix the problem with crafty shenanigans. You live in the wrong place for spot silver!
 
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