True value of second hand bullion

[renovator]

I suggest you look at the shipping rates &divide it up by the number of coins & you will find you can still be competitive



http://www.coin-rare.com/shipping-policy.aspx

Misinformation is starting to become rife around here

Yeah, 100oz of ASEs cost $49.95 or $0.50/oz extra to get them here.

Then you add the customs charge of ~$60 which brings it up to ~$1.10/oz.

Then there are exchange rate/wire transfer fees. You can do that relatively cheaply now, but that's still going to add another $0.05-$0.15/oz.

Those coins on that site are already USD$4.05 over USD spot, so we're now at about USD$5.25 over spot.

You can get the same 100 ASEs locally from Bullion Money for AUD$4.82/oz over spot plus ~$0.17 shipping or $4.99 all up, so even with the AUD/USD exchange rate being what it is, it would still be more expensive to get those coins shipped in from overseas.

And five bucks over spot is apparently still way too expensive for some people.

First your talking businesses & now your talking 100 ASEs ferk make up your mind your just twisting it around to suit yourself
I am talking if you wanted to become a dealer & import them in bulk .

Your post i replied to was about businesses was it not ?

Oh give me a fkn break

 

[renovator]

I've done the legwork on getting private rounds manufactured in the US - even ordering in the tens of thousands, the wholesale cost over spot is higher than many of the "specials" you see online.

Im not sure you looked hard enough for rounds manufacturers

Heres an email from a US mint from my enquiries

Thank you for the additional details...

Bullion Production / Satin Finish
500 to 749 pcs $1.15 each
750 to 1000 pcs $1.00 each

Silver purchase is $ .50 over Market

...which backs up my point exactly? APMEX will do retail specials for 1oz rounds at 89c over spot. Less than the raw fabrication charges being offered wholesale.

I had similar quotes (but without the 50c/oz premium).

My point is you can get rounds & bars made & shipped here in bulk & still make a profit . Thats what this thread is about people are saying it cant be done when it can . You wont make a lot of money but its not impossible

Your SS bars & our hopping friends SC bars are manufactured in the US then shipped here with alll the charges added & you still make a profit & so do southern cross .

All this it cant be done BS is wearing me thin .

I thought this site was to inform people about PMs & its ins & outs .

Its starting look like selective information

 

[RetardedMonkey]

Its starting look like selective information

So that's $1.50 per 1oz round above spot to have one created/made etc?

 

[renovator]

Its starting look like selective information

So that's $1.50 per 1oz round above spot to have one created/made etc?

Yes but i had quotes for $1 over spot .

The metal i could get at spot for 1000oz bars & $1 fabrication charge per round

The die fees were $275 per side but they last for 100s of thousands of rounds

 

[RomanControl]

I don't think someone will listen and comprehend your information though Big AD.
There is an agenda and anything that gets in the way is ignored.

My agenda is logic
And since I'm talking abot second hand bullion and he is explaining new bullion costs and dealer costs, I ignore it because he is being illogical

I dont think the question Im raising for discussion need be confused or confusing.

Why do we in Australia pay premiums for second hand bullion that are comparable to new bullion premiums from a dealer
The rest of the world doesnt

 

[Butch]

^^^
That Roman Control, always stirring the melting pot!

 

[RomanControl]

haha
Im a bring the mountain to mohammed sort of guy

 

[renovator]

^^^
That Roman Control, always stirring the melting pot!

Yep hes a troublemaker but his hearts in the right place .A bit like me

 

[Big A.D.]

I suggest you look at the shipping rates &divide it up by the number of coins & you will find you can still be competitive



http://www.coin-rare.com/shipping-policy.aspx

Misinformation is starting to become rife around here

Yeah, 100oz of ASEs cost $49.95 or $0.50/oz extra to get them here.

Then you add the customs charge of ~$60 which brings it up to ~$1.10/oz.

Then there are exchange rate/wire transfer fees. You can do that relatively cheaply now, but that's still going to add another $0.05-$0.15/oz.

Those coins on that site are already USD$4.05 over USD spot, so we're now at about USD$5.25 over spot.

You can get the same 100 ASEs locally from Bullion Money for AUD$4.82/oz over spot plus ~$0.17 shipping or $4.99 all up, so even with the AUD/USD exchange rate being what it is, it would still be more expensive to get those coins shipped in from overseas.

And five bucks over spot is apparently still way too expensive for some people.

First your talking businesses & now your talking 100 ASEs ferk make up your mind your just twisting it around to suit yourself
I am talking if you wanted to become a dealer & import them in bulk .

Your post i replied to was about businesses was it not ?

Oh give me a fkn break

Okay, so if you're talking bulk then you're talking about 5000+ ounces at at time which means you need a spare $150k.

Then you're stuck waiting for them to arrive from the OS supplier and praying spot doesn't drop by more than about 25c before you can sell them just to break even. At the time of writing, the chart at the top of the page shows a ~$0.60 drop and rebound so you'd be hoping none of your customers nailed the bottom of it and bought a monster box because you'll need to sell another ~12% of your stock at a $0.25 profit just to break even. Your inventory is now depleted by more than 1/5th and you haven't made any money yet.

You could start selling as soon as you've placed the order with your supplier, but then your customers will get shitty that they have to wait 2-4 weeks before the metal is actually in their hands (and it's not like we haven't had that issue come up here before).

Dealers have to make a buck so their prices on new stuff is higher. If they can buy second hand stuff cheaper than they can buy new stuff, factoring all their costs of purchasing the second hand stuff and still be able to make a buck when they sell it, they'll probably do that too.

If the market is prepared to pay a premium for second hand products, that's just the market doing what the market does.

 

[renovator]

Yeah, 100oz of ASEs cost $49.95 or $0.50/oz extra to get them here.

Then you add the customs charge of ~$60 which brings it up to ~$1.10/oz.

Then there are exchange rate/wire transfer fees. You can do that relatively cheaply now, but that's still going to add another $0.05-$0.15/oz.

Those coins on that site are already USD$4.05 over USD spot, so we're now at about USD$5.25 over spot.

You can get the same 100 ASEs locally from Bullion Money for AUD$4.82/oz over spot plus ~$0.17 shipping or $4.99 all up, so even with the AUD/USD exchange rate being what it is, it would still be more expensive to get those coins shipped in from overseas.

And five bucks over spot is apparently still way too expensive for some people.

First your talking businesses & now your talking 100 ASEs ferk make up your mind your just twisting it around to suit yourself
I am talking if you wanted to become a dealer & import them in bulk .

Your post i replied to was about businesses was it not ?

Oh give me a fkn break

Okay, so if you're talking bulk then you're talking about 5000+ ounces at at time which means you need a spare $150k.

Then you're stuck waiting for them to arrive from the OS supplier and praying spot doesn't drop by more than about 25c before you can sell them just to break even. At the time of writing, the chart at the top of the page shows a ~$0.60 drop and rebound so you'd be hoping none of your customers nailed the bottom of it and bought a monster box because you'll need to sell another ~12% of your stock at a $0.25 profit just to break even. Your inventory is now depleted by more than 1/5th and you haven't made any money yet.

You could start selling as soon as you've placed the order with your supplier, but then your customers will get shitty that they have to wait 2-4 weeks before the metal is actually in their hands (and it's not like we haven't had that issue come up here before).

Dealers have to make a buck so their prices on new stuff is higher. If they can buy second hand stuff cheaper than they can buy new stuff, factoring all their costs of purchasing the second hand stuff and still be able to make a buck when they sell it, they'll probably do that too.

If the market is prepared to pay a premium for second hand products, that's just the market doing what the market does.

Are you still trying to justify your position .

The FACTS are you can turn a profit . No ifs or buts

 

[Big A.D.]

I don't think someone will listen and comprehend your information though Big AD.
There is an agenda and anything that gets in the way is ignored.

My agenda is logic
And since I'm talking abot second hand bullion and he is explaining new bullion costs and dealer costs, I ignore it because he is being illogical

I dont think the question Im raising for discussion need be confused or confusing.

Why do we in Australia pay premiums for second hand bullion that are comparable to new bullion premiums from a dealer
The rest of the world doesnt

Okay, if it costs a dealer, say Spot + $4 to get as many ASEs as they want landed here, why wouldn't they buy second-hand ASEs for Spot + $3.80 and make an extra 20c?

There is now a price floor of $3.80 on second hand ASEs because I'm not going to sell them to you for Spot + $2 when I can get an extra $1.80/oz by selling them to the dealer.

 

[goldpelican]

If the market is prepared to pay a premium for second hand products, that's just the market doing what the market does.

The crux of it all.

 

[RomanControl]

Tell that to debeers

 

[renovator]

If the market is prepared to pay a premium for second hand products, that's just the market doing what the market does.

The crux of it all.

Agreed

 

[Big A.D.]

Are you still trying to justify your position .

The FACTS are you can turn a profit . No ifs or buts

Hey, I know you can make a profit doing it otherwise nobody would.

I'm just trying to explain to the cheapskate how dealers make their money because he seems shocked nobody wants to take a loss in selling stuff to him.

 

[RomanControl]

Are you still trying to justify your position .

The FACTS are you can turn a profit . No ifs or buts

Hey, I know you can make a profit doing it otherwise nobody would.

I'm just trying to explain to the cheapskate how dealers make their money because he seems shocked nobody wants to take a loss in selling stuff to him.

Am i the cheapskate?
Im not talking about dealers.
Im talking about second hand bullion !!!
note the 3 exclamation marks (thats frustration)
Australia has a different market ethos to the rest of the world with premiums on 2nd hand bullion

As far as being a cheapskate is concerned, I wish I could be.
I only buy from dealers.
Im happy to pay their premium because I wouldnt know if its a lump of lead or a lump of silver.
and if i buy off a dealer I have peace of mind.

 

[hem9]

As long as the consumers are willing to spend cash for the what is perceived to be appropriate market premium then there is no reason why dealers or private individuals would sell cheaper to the minority who perceive that bullion premium is expensive when they can get more. Once the minority becomes the majority, then you will see premiums go down as dealers and private individuals would have to compete price wise for the limited amount of cash. Usually in a perceived bull market premiums go up as there is a larger base of customers willing to pay to get their metal.

In bold is the answer to your question why no one will sell at a cheaper price.

 

[Aum]

A good point. And one that would lead to questioning the Institution i.e. Perth Mint,
and their buy back policy.
Why would they, as a recognised bullion trader, expect the Public, to sell back to them, under Spot?
Cheers
Aum

Just a guess - maybe their pricing policies are designed to discourage people selling back to them? The time it takes to conduct a buyback transaction may make it economically unviable to offer higher prices.

Call me strange, but it would seem an unusual business strategy
to discourage people selling back to them.
When their stock levels are regularly unavailable on many items.
(2oz silver coins and 1oz gold cast, a couple- At The Moment)
True, they certainly discourage buy and sell with their methods,
and with high premiums on many items, a virtual monopoly in Perth,
their not interested in buyback or F2F.
Cheers
Aum

 

[Naphthalene Man]

Am i the cheapskate?
Im not talking about dealers.
Im talking about second hand bullion !!!
note the 3 exclamation marks (thats frustration)
Australia has a different market ethos to the rest of the world with premiums on 2nd hand bullion

As far as being a cheapskate is concerned, I wish I could be.
I only buy from dealers.
Im happy to pay their premium because I wouldnt know if its a lump of lead or a lump of silver.
and if i buy off a dealer I have peace of mind.

I must be reeeally stupid because i don't understand why you keep harping on about the second hand bullion?
A seller is only willing to part with it for a designated price in order to maintain his profitability. If a buyer wants that item then he is forced to pay the price.
This applies whether the bullion is brand spankin' new or 'experienced'.

I can afford to keep my house so i do, but if someone comes along with the right money that would make me change my mind then everything is for sale!

 

[RomanControl]

napthalene I think your point is that the market decides the price, which is correct of course.
But this doesnt explain , to my satisfaction,why Australian market in second hand bullion differs so much to the rest of the world.
Its happening but why is it happening?

I actually think alot of new people like me have gotten into metals at the same time. And we all have unrealistic selling expectations together.
And the old hands aren't going to stick a spoke in the wheels.

You're buying silver plus fluff.zip. Nothing. Fluff is the premium. And I wonder if the bottom of the fluff market will drop out one day in Australia, and align itself to realistic fluff prices the rest of the world pays.

Also as far as Perth Mints buyback prices are concerned, if they're paying spot for the raw materials And if costs them $4 a coin or $50 a bar to make it I'm a chinaman