True value of second hand bullion

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That is The price.
If you can buy it cheaper from overseas then do it.
If you can start your own bullion production business to revolutionise the situation in Oz then do it.
Just don't stress your head over why it is what it is here.
Sellers won't make the initial loss to satisfy your demands. To get the ball rolling i think it is best that you buy up big then sell at the loss and encourage others to 'pay it forward' to keep the low premium momentum going.... until the next silver shortage then all bets are off.
 
Still not sure where you get this notion "the rest of the world" pays less for second hand bullion. Quick examples pulled from the web (not cherry picked, I grabbed the latest eBay completed listings):

1oz NEW rounds on APMEX - $34.67/oz

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SAME round on eBay sold last night for more than $3 OVER retail:

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Here's some other bars and older rounds - the "cheapest" old design (so definitely second hand) is only 67c less than retail for a new one.

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Look at the stock levels for the APMEX 1oz round. About $2.75m in stock. That dwarves the inventory of a decent number of Australian bullion dealers with that single item alone. You need to get your head around the economies of scale at play - sure the bars and rounds are $1.50/oz over spot - but funnily enough that's the same WHOLESALE premium available from some private mints. So when you've got NEW bullion in the market for sale at those prices from some outlets, private sellers need to compete in that space - and as can be seen from the eBay examples, it doesn't define the market - bullion is selling "second hand" for more than the dealers prices!

You might as well start an argument on the price of books or imported cars in Australia - you can buy the same new car cheaper from a car dealer in the US or Europe than they go for second hand here.
 
goldpelican said:
I've been the guy on the customer side of the counter in many a US coin or bullion shop - you can't buy new rounds for 89c over the counter.
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Can vouch for this, visited a few on my last US trip!
 
premium paid is gone. you will be left with the metal. (true value? RomanControl... truly valuable = may be got interested buyers, or else true value is subjected and noticeably zero)

when new metal is being re-minted again, the second hand or older one will lose their premium, to most people.

certain people want and willing to pay a bit more to get the oldie :)

metal is metal, what ever stamped on it will increase the value ?, I prefer an un-stamped one please, so that I can get it stamped for a real piece. :) who sell stamp? thought all got burned already. turned to zero and dust.
 
I dont think he proved anything.
Assuming his examples werent cherry picked extremes to prove a point,
paying over spot for 2nd hand isnt always premium fluff.

The explanation for the difference is more likely a rarity in getting hold of silver at the time of those sales.
Which is a supply and demand thing and completely seperate issue.
You're not paying premium, you're paying a more realistic spot for the silver itself
 
RomanControl said:
I dont think he proved anything.
Assuming his examples werent cherry picked extremes to prove a point,
paying over spot for 2nd hand isnt always premium fluff.

The explanation for the difference is more likely a rarity in getting hold of silver at the time of those sales.
Which is a supply and demand thing and completely seperate issue.
You're not paying premium, you're paying a more realistic spot for the silver itself
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HUGH???!!!???

** uncharacteristically dumb expression ** :lol:
 
Quit the whining and the premium princess bs you sound like a baby you want low premium buy 10 -100 oz. Pm or ntr Bars. Low premium 1 oz rounds dont exist unless you have 5 figures for your purchase. Dealers have to make profit and their margin is tiny and overhead is huge. If you want low premiums buy big bars, if you want liquidity, price protection and numismatic value, then buy pm coins. Nuff said.
 
I don't think anything that is explained to this idiot gets through to him,
He wants things his way and that's it ,must have been a spoiled kid & still wants things his way :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol:
 
one day monkeyboy, you might learn to have a discussion without making personal insults.
Until then I'd appreciate it if you refrain from communicating to me, or about me.
 
goldpelican said:
Still not sure where you get this notion "the rest of the world" pays less for second hand bullion.
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That and you can add between 7% and 20% in VAT for silver purchased in Europe (depending on which country you buy it from).

Can't imagine why anyone would sell off their stack privately for much lower than whatever it costs to buy via a dealer who'll charge them the tax.

Buy @ [cost] + 20%
Sell @ [cost]
=
lose 20%
 
Big A.D. said:
goldpelican said:
Still not sure where you get this notion "the rest of the world" pays less for second hand bullion.
Click to expand...

That and you can add between 7% and 20% in VAT for silver purchased in Europe (depending on which country you buy it from).

Can't imagine why anyone would sell off their stack privately for much lower than whatever it costs to buy via a dealer who'll charge them the tax.

Buy @ [cost] + 20%
Sell @ [cost]
=
lose 20%
Click to expand...

That, and if I was a buyer and I had the choice of

Buy @ [cost] + 19% from Private Seller
Buy @ [cost] + 20% from Dealer

I would go with the obvious cheaper one.

There is no incentive to sell at [cost] + 1% when you can easily sell at 19% ceteris parabis.

Free markets at work.
 
RC, if you want cheap bullion then start a trend by selling cheap bullion which would force other dealers and private sellers to maybe adjust their price. If you just want to buy cheap bullion so you can sell later then try to justify it by saying that premiums are too high then you are just a low baller.
 
You can't reliably sell cheap bullion if you can't reliably get cheap bullion. The price would have to always be going up and down in wild spikes in a predictable way. Or it would have to keep going straight up and then calling it cheap would be a technicality.
 
RomanControl said:
Im talking about second hand bullion !!!
note the 3 exclamation marks (thats frustration)
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Three exclamation marks and not one apostrophe?

I kid!

If we can accept that all second hand bullion should get a low premium then why can't I get any premium on my pre-loved pre-dec? I end up getting negative premiums offered.

I used to look at silver rounds from the Northwest mint in America and gaze in wonderment at how cheap the product was, it was never cheap enough to import though.

You are hoping for a fundamental change in the way people think about buying in Australia, and it is on the way. There are more and more TV shows about how people are heading to the internet to make their purchases, more calls from local businesses to increase taxes so they can 'stay' competitive. (Not many calls for the businesses to lower their prices to remain competitive)

I bought some second hand silver from APMEX, 99 cents over spot per ounce. I could only afford 50 ounces at the time so it still jumped up a few dollars by the time I got it in my hands. Definitely the way to go, either by yourself or let Maggie do the work next time there is a group buy from APMEX.

There is some there now, http://www.apmex.com/Product/156/Generic_Silver_999_Fine___As_low_as_069_per_oz_over_spot.aspx 0.69 cents per ounce over spot (if you buy 200oz)

It is a shame that you can't get those prices here but if more people took their business abroad and voted with their wallets you might get more attention, dealers will still make money on the semi/numismatic items but second hand silver will be more realistically priced.

Just sucks to be the first person who sells it cheap.
 
Sargeant Argent said:
Quit the whining and the premium princess bs you sound like a baby you want low premium buy 10 -100 oz. Pm or ntr Bars. Low premium 1 oz rounds dont exist unless you have 5 figures for your purchase. Dealers have to make profit and their margin is tiny and overhead is huge. If you want low premiums buy big bars, if you want liquidity, price protection and numismatic value, then buy pm coins. Nuff said.
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Whats with the personalised insults mate? While I don't understand RC's point, I applaud him for questioning a situation and then trying to reason with a lot of people who don't understand his point (and I'm one of them). But your "quit the whining and the premium princess bs, you sound like a bably......" pisses me off with YOUR poor attitude more than RC's.
 
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