Libertarian ideology and financial collapse

[Newtosilver]

Oh if you want more detail,
:
:
I would believe in mateship and everyone gets a fair go, people who need a hand get help, I believe in a strong sense of community and the ideals of democracy - everyone gets a say if they have money or not. I also believe just because people have money they do not get special treatment. I als believe people value is not base on their job or if they can afford a good lawyer. I am also very big on the common good a s a society not just selfish individuals who have a sense of entitlement. No one gets left behind.

That sounds pretty much exactly in tune with myself.

Correct me if I am wrong then, but the difference it would seem is that you are willing to accept that certain individuals have authority and privileges which means that they are allowed to initiate fraud, force or violence against other people or their property and that you actively advocate and support them in doing so to obtain certain outcomes that you deem desirable.

Knew you were going there basically if you do not support freedom, that means you support oppression, fraud, violance and all the other bad stuff. It is not to hard to see through but I guess it fools a lot of people who are not to bright or are trying to push an agenda.

 

[boyd_05]

The fact is theft is what 95% of Australians want.

If that is indeed fact, could u please kindly direct me to where I can read about this study?

Thanks.

 

[Newtosilver]

I was speaking to someone today about Libertarianism and how it seems to be a "I want and it's mine screw everyone else selfish philosophy" it is regularly described as thinking like a 4 year old, it is mine, I am not going to share and I want it because it is mine.

They explained to me Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

As people develop they learn and develop morals, some people progress and their morals develop to higher levels, some people do not advance.

I have been informed Libertarians are at level 1 self interest....
"Stage two (self-interest driven) expresses the "what's in it for me" position, in which right behavior is defined by whatever the individual believes to be in their best interest but understood in a narrow way which does not consider one's reputation or relationships to groups of people. Stage two reasoning shows a limited interest in the needs of others, but only to a point where it might further the individual's own interests. As a result, concern for others is not based on loyalty or intrinsic respect, but rather a "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." mentality.[2] The lack of a societal perspective in the pre-conventional level is quite different from the social contract (stage five), as all actions have the purpose of serving the individual's own needs or interests."

Basically selfish and will develop theories to back up there beliefs, justifying whatever moral transgressions no matter how crazy they may be. Due to stunted moral development.

People progress through the scale in order and as they grow older for most people anyway.

Morals are also not related to intelligence and just because someone's morals have not progressed it does not mean they are a bad person. It is like a child who does not want to share, they are not a bad child they are just at that stage of development.

You then go through the stages of development and you get to stage 5

"In Stage five (social contract driven), the world is viewed as holding different opinions, rights and values. Such perspectives should be mutually respected as unique to each person or community. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than rigid edicts. Those that do not promote the general welfare should be changed when necessary to meet "the greatest good for the greatest number of people."[8] This is achieved through majority decision and inevitable compromise. Democratic government is ostensibly based on stage five reasoning."

Stage 5 is where you think of others and community, I asked why the hell can't someone at an earlier stage see the problem in their thinking and how thinking only about themselves and not the bigger picture just does not work in a community.

I was told that it is like trying to have a 5 year old do year 10 maths, they just have no concept or ability to understand it because they have not been taught and developed to that level.

Very interesting and I learnt a lot, so when people say Libertarians are a selfish bunch of turds who think along the lines of I got mine and screw everyone else you can direct them to
Kohlbergs stages of moral development

 

[Newtosilver]

The fact is theft is what 95% of Australians want.

If that is indeed fact, could u please kindly direct me to where I can read about this study?

Thanks.

Typo

 

[boyd_05]

I was speaking to someone today about Libertarianism and how it seems to be a "I want and it's mine screw everyone else selfish philosophy" it is regularly described as thinking like a 4 year old, it is mine, I am not going to share and I want it because it is mine.

They explained to me Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

As people develop they learn and develop morals, some people progress and their morals develop to higher levels, some people do not advance.

I have been informed Libertarians are at level 1 self interest....
"Stage two (self-interest driven) expresses the "what's in it for me" position, in which right behavior is defined by whatever the individual believes to be in their best interest but understood in a narrow way which does not consider one's reputation or relationships to groups of people. Stage two reasoning shows a limited interest in the needs of others, but only to a point where it might further the individual's own interests. As a result, concern for others is not based on loyalty or intrinsic respect, but rather a "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." mentality.[2] The lack of a societal perspective in the pre-conventional level is quite different from the social contract (stage five), as all actions have the purpose of serving the individual's own needs or interests."

Basically selfish and will develop theories to back up there beliefs, justifying whatever moral transgressions no matter how crazy they may be. Due to stunted moral development.

People progress through the scale in order and as they grow older for most people anyway.

Morals are also not related to intelligence and just because someone's morals have not progressed it does not mean they are a bad person. It is like a child who does not want to share, they are not a bad child they are just at that stage of development.

You then go through the stages of development and you get to stage 5

"In Stage five (social contract driven), the world is viewed as holding different opinions, rights and values. Such perspectives should be mutually respected as unique to each person or community. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than rigid edicts. Those that do not promote the general welfare should be changed when necessary to meet "the greatest good for the greatest number of people."[8] This is achieved through majority decision and inevitable compromise. Democratic government is ostensibly based on stage five reasoning."

Stage 5 is where you think of others and community, I asked why the hell can't someone at an earlier stage see the problem in their thinking and how thinking only about themselves and not the bigger picture just does not work in a community.

I was told that it is like trying to have a 5 year old do year 10 maths, they just have no concept or ability to understand it because they have not been taught and developed to that level.

Very interesting and I learnt a lot, so when people say Libertarians are a selfish bunch of turds who think along the lines of I got mine and screw everyone else you can direct them to
Kohlbergs stages of moral development

talk about a shoehorning...

 

[Newtosilver]

I was speaking to someone today about Libertarianism and how it seems to be a "I want and it's mine screw everyone else selfish philosophy" it is regularly described as thinking like a 4 year old, it is mine, I am not going to share and I want it because it is mine.

They explained to me Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

As people develop they learn and develop morals, some people progress and their morals develop to higher levels, some people do not advance.

I have been informed Libertarians are at level 1 self interest....
"Stage two (self-interest driven) expresses the "what's in it for me" position, in which right behavior is defined by whatever the individual believes to be in their best interest but understood in a narrow way which does not consider one's reputation or relationships to groups of people. Stage two reasoning shows a limited interest in the needs of others, but only to a point where it might further the individual's own interests. As a result, concern for others is not based on loyalty or intrinsic respect, but rather a "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." mentality.[2] The lack of a societal perspective in the pre-conventional level is quite different from the social contract (stage five), as all actions have the purpose of serving the individual's own needs or interests."

Basically selfish and will develop theories to back up there beliefs, justifying whatever moral transgressions no matter how crazy they may be. Due to stunted moral development.

People progress through the scale in order and as they grow older for most people anyway.

Morals are also not related to intelligence and just because someone's morals have not progressed it does not mean they are a bad person. It is like a child who does not want to share, they are not a bad child they are just at that stage of development.

You then go through the stages of development and you get to stage 5

"In Stage five (social contract driven), the world is viewed as holding different opinions, rights and values. Such perspectives should be mutually respected as unique to each person or community. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than rigid edicts. Those that do not promote the general welfare should be changed when necessary to meet "the greatest good for the greatest number of people."[8] This is achieved through majority decision and inevitable compromise. Democratic government is ostensibly based on stage five reasoning."

Stage 5 is where you think of others and community, I asked why the hell can't someone at an earlier stage see the problem in their thinking and how thinking only about themselves and not the bigger picture just does not work in a community.

I was told that it is like trying to have a 5 year old do year 10 maths, they just have no concept or ability to understand it because they have not been taught and developed to that level.

Very interesting and I learnt a lot, so when people say Libertarians are a selfish bunch of turds who think along the lines of I got mine and screw everyone else you can direct them to
Kohlbergs stages of moral development

talk about a shoehorning...

She is a pretty switched on lady and she knew nothing about Libertarianism until she looked it up and she did a little reading.

Fits perfectly when you read what Libertarianism is about, she also said something about how it would be very easy to manipulate people at Level 1, stage 2 in relation to Kohlbergs stages of moral development and went on about some other stuff but it she covered a lot of stuff very quickly and I did not take it all in.

She emphasised people at lower levels of moral development are not wrong or bad and some of them are very smart it is just where they sit at their level of moral development and trying to explain something at a higher level / stage is not the best way to do it. Apparently there have been world wide studies conducted and there are methods that have been shown to speed people's moral learning or thinking or something like that.

It is interesting to find out about the things that make people think how they do and different types of morals etc.

It reinforces my belief that Libertarianism will never become main stream when you look at the moral beliefs of the majority of the population. To the majority of the population (my opinion) libertarianism is just not morally acceptable and most people have advanced past Level 1 stage 2 by the time they become adults.

She also mentioned another Phycologist and his work and how it ties in but I have forgotten his name, I will find out more

 

[boyd_05]

 

[SilverTabbyCat]

Libertarians aren't right wing. Or left wing.

 

[lurk@l0t]

The fact is theft is what 95% of Australians want.

If that is indeed fact, could u please kindly direct me to where I can read about this study?

Thanks.

I hate to say this, but the election results clearly show that 95% (or more) of Australians support parties which propagate/encourage legalised theft! Sure, one could argue thats because most.Australians dont believe taxation to be theft, but thats simply because they're morons

 

[lurk@l0t]

I was speaking to someone today about Libertarianism and how it seems to be a "I want and it's mine screw everyone else selfish philosophy" it is regularly described as thinking like a 4 year old, it is mine, I am not going to share and I want it because it is mine.

They explained to me Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

As people develop they learn and develop morals, some people progress and their morals develop to higher levels, some people do not advance.

I have been informed Libertarians are at level 1 self interest....
"Stage two (self-interest driven) expresses the "what's in it for me" position, in which right behavior is defined by whatever the individual believes to be in their best interest but understood in a narrow way which does not consider one's reputation or relationships to groups of people. Stage two reasoning shows a limited interest in the needs of others, but only to a point where it might further the individual's own interests. As a result, concern for others is not based on loyalty or intrinsic respect, but rather a "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." mentality.[2] The lack of a societal perspective in the pre-conventional level is quite different from the social contract (stage five), as all actions have the purpose of serving the individual's own needs or interests."

Basically selfish and will develop theories to back up there beliefs, justifying whatever moral transgressions no matter how crazy they may be. Due to stunted moral development.

People progress through the scale in order and as they grow older for most people anyway.

Morals are also not related to intelligence and just because someone's morals have not progressed it does not mean they are a bad person. It is like a child who does not want to share, they are not a bad child they are just at that stage of development.

You then go through the stages of development and you get to stage 5

"In Stage five (social contract driven), the world is viewed as holding different opinions, rights and values. Such perspectives should be mutually respected as unique to each person or community. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than rigid edicts. Those that do not promote the general welfare should be changed when necessary to meet "the greatest good for the greatest number of people."[8] This is achieved through majority decision and inevitable compromise. Democratic government is ostensibly based on stage five reasoning."

Stage 5 is where you think of others and community, I asked why the hell can't someone at an earlier stage see the problem in their thinking and how thinking only about themselves and not the bigger picture just does not work in a community.

I was told that it is like trying to have a 5 year old do year 10 maths, they just have no concept or ability to understand it because they have not been taught and developed to that level.

Very interesting and I learnt a lot, so when people say Libertarians are a selfish bunch of turds who think along the lines of I got mine and screw everyone else you can direct them to
Kohlbergs stages of moral development

http://www.libertymind.com/

 

[Newtosilver]

If that is indeed fact, could u please kindly direct me to where I can read about this study?

Thanks.

I hate to say this, but the election results clearly show that 95% (or more) of Australians support parties which propagate/encourage legalised theft! Sure, one could argue thats because most.Australians dont believe taxation to be theft, but thats simply because they're morons

Lol yeah 95% of Australians are morons maybe they will regress back to thinking like toddlers one day and join your way of thinking. The problem you have is 95% (actually I think the percentage would be higher than 95%) of Australians think your Libertarian ideas are moronic. That presents a real problem for Libertarianism

 

[Newtosilver]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mark-Wahlberg-Shock-and-Confused-Look.gif

Yeah you will not understand it and that is fine, you are just stuck at a lower level of moral development, don't take it as a bad thing that is just how you are

 

[Newtosilver]

I was speaking to someone today about Libertarianism and how it seems to be a "I want and it's mine screw everyone else selfish philosophy" it is regularly described as thinking like a 4 year old, it is mine, I am not going to share and I want it because it is mine.

They explained to me Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development.

As people develop they learn and develop morals, some people progress and their morals develop to higher levels, some people do not advance.

I have been informed Libertarians are at level 1 self interest....
"Stage two (self-interest driven) expresses the "what's in it for me" position, in which right behavior is defined by whatever the individual believes to be in their best interest but understood in a narrow way which does not consider one's reputation or relationships to groups of people. Stage two reasoning shows a limited interest in the needs of others, but only to a point where it might further the individual's own interests. As a result, concern for others is not based on loyalty or intrinsic respect, but rather a "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." mentality.[2] The lack of a societal perspective in the pre-conventional level is quite different from the social contract (stage five), as all actions have the purpose of serving the individual's own needs or interests."

Basically selfish and will develop theories to back up there beliefs, justifying whatever moral transgressions no matter how crazy they may be. Due to stunted moral development.

People progress through the scale in order and as they grow older for most people anyway.

Morals are also not related to intelligence and just because someone's morals have not progressed it does not mean they are a bad person. It is like a child who does not want to share, they are not a bad child they are just at that stage of development.

You then go through the stages of development and you get to stage 5

"In Stage five (social contract driven), the world is viewed as holding different opinions, rights and values. Such perspectives should be mutually respected as unique to each person or community. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than rigid edicts. Those that do not promote the general welfare should be changed when necessary to meet "the greatest good for the greatest number of people."[8] This is achieved through majority decision and inevitable compromise. Democratic government is ostensibly based on stage five reasoning."

Stage 5 is where you think of others and community, I asked why the hell can't someone at an earlier stage see the problem in their thinking and how thinking only about themselves and not the bigger picture just does not work in a community.

I was told that it is like trying to have a 5 year old do year 10 maths, they just have no concept or ability to understand it because they have not been taught and developed to that level.

Very interesting and I learnt a lot, so when people say Libertarians are a selfish bunch of turds who think along the lines of I got mine and screw everyone else you can direct them to
Kohlbergs stages of moral development

http://www.libertymind.com/

Oh wow a book written by a Libertarian saying how great Libertarianism is..... What a surprise

In relation to the point about people at the lower levels of moral reasoning and them being able to be manipulated, do you think that is why it was so easy for all those supposedly smart, successful Libertarians to be ripped of in Chile? Basically tell them all the Libertarian stuff is true, play to there Libertarian beliefs and take them to the cleaners? I have to say I find it funny as hell, I mean how could they get sucked into that?
Even socialist hippies can set up a small community and not turtle it up lol.

 

[boyd_05]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mark-Wahlberg-Shock-and-Confused-Look.gif

Yeah you will not understand it and that is fine, you are just stuck at a lower level of moral development, don't take it as a bad thing that is just how you are

Lol u have no clue. You're not nearly as clever as u think u are, and if u knew what i did with my own time and money and how i live my life, you wouldnt be lecturing me on morals.

You are the classic example of someone that suffers from Psychological projection. Your comments are littered with it. Get your own house in order before casting judgment on others.

 

[boyd_05]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mark-Wahlberg-Shock-and-Confused-Look.gif

Yeah you will not understand it and that is fine, you are just stuck at a lower level of moral development, don't take it as a bad thing that is just how you are

So tell me why you think i have a low moral development. Is it because I don't agree with your interpretation of Lawrence Kohlberg's stages? Is it because you think I just dont understand?

Tell me how this makes me morally deficient?

 

[boyd_05]

Let's face it, Libertarias tell us how great it is as a theory, there are some catchy jingles, if you oppose Libertarianism you oppose freedom and therefore you are a bad person. Tax is theft, meat is murder (oh wait that is a catchy phrase that PETA use)

Libertarians are VERY WELL FUNDED in the US, some very rich people in the US support it. The question is why is there not one country in the world that has adopted it? It is a fringe dwellers idea, very few people actually support it if only they could see how well it would work in practice not just as a theory.

I have always asked why don't Libertarians actually put it into practice even on a small scale? You don't need all this regulation imposed on people.... People just need to embrace Libertarianism and do it and all the doubters will see how amazing it is and the idea wil grow and before you know it people will embrace their new found freedom. There is that idea of building a society in international waters on a floating platforms free from govt oppression.

Well you can not imagine how pleased I was to find out some Libertarians with strong financial backing decided to show the world how Libertarianism works in practice. They found a valley where they could put there principles into practice and live a life in paradise without govt oppression all based on Libertarian ideals. There were even discounts for payments in gold and Bitcoin so the evil govt or no one else could track you and impose upon your freedom.

http://panampost.com/adriana-peralt...-chile-libertarian-paradise-turned-nightmare/

You can not imagine how much I laughed when I found this lol.

Google it and you can read about the hype and how amazing this place was going to be. Of course it did notf fail because of Libertarian principles....... Communism did not fail because of Communist Principles either.......

Okay. So that's one thing that you don't do and luckily enough I didn't do it either so we're even. What about what you actually do day to day?

What do I do day to day? Much the same as 99% of other Australians... Live in the real world not a world of theory.

...then goes on to posting lawrence kohlberg's stages of moral development- a theory, lol


And btw- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory - Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

Such a horrible thing. Especially when u consider how much of our modern world is based on theory...

 

[Newtosilver]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mark-Wahlberg-Shock-and-Confused-Look.gif

Yeah you will not understand it and that is fine, you are just stuck at a lower level of moral development, don't take it as a bad thing that is just how you are

Lol u have no clue. You're not nearly as clever as u think u are, and if u knew what i did with my own time and money and how i live my life, you wouldnt be lecturing me on morals.

You are the classic example of someone that suffers from Psychological projection. Your comments are littered with it. Get your own house in order before casting judgment on others.

Nothing wrong with my house it is just dandy , you do what you want.... I think Libertarians are like 4 year olds and adopt it as a way of justifying what you want, Libertarianism will appeal to a very small section of the population but the problem they are going to have is 99% of the population can recognise it as bullshit and are never going to adopt it

 

[Newtosilver]

Let's face it, Libertarias tell us how great it is as a theory, there are some catchy jingles, if you oppose Libertarianism you oppose freedom and therefore you are a bad person. Tax is theft, meat is murder (oh wait that is a catchy phrase that PETA use)

Libertarians are VERY WELL FUNDED in the US, some very rich people in the US support it. The question is why is there not one country in the world that has adopted it? It is a fringe dwellers idea, very few people actually support it if only they could see how well it would work in practice not just as a theory.

I have always asked why don't Libertarians actually put it into practice even on a small scale? You don't need all this regulation imposed on people.... People just need to embrace Libertarianism and do it and all the doubters will see how amazing it is and the idea wil grow and before you know it people will embrace their new found freedom. There is that idea of building a society in international waters on a floating platforms free from govt oppression.

Well you can not imagine how pleased I was to find out some Libertarians with strong financial backing decided to show the world how Libertarianism works in practice. They found a valley where they could put there principles into practice and live a life in paradise without govt oppression all based on Libertarian ideals. There were even discounts for payments in gold and Bitcoin so the evil govt or no one else could track you and impose upon your freedom.

http://panampost.com/adriana-peralt...-chile-libertarian-paradise-turned-nightmare/

You can not imagine how much I laughed when I found this lol.

Google it and you can read about the hype and how amazing this place was going to be. Of course it did notf fail because of Libertarian principles....... Communism did not fail because of Communist Principles either.......

Okay. So that's one thing that you don't do and luckily enough I didn't do it either so we're even. What about what you actually do day to day?

What do I do day to day? Much the same as 99% of other Australians... Live in the real world not a world of theory.

...then goes on to posting lawrence kohlberg's stages of moral development- a theory, lol


And btw- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory - Theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

Such a horrible thing. Especially when u consider how much of our modern world is based on theory...

It is a theory that has been widely accepted and is put into PRACTICAL USE around the world every day by Pschycologists, Libertaianism is a theory that has been put into practice by no country in the world in history of mankind. The largest practical application of Libertarianism that has been put into practice is a small community in Chile where it crashed and burned in less than 12 months and all the rich smart Libertarians got ripped off for millions of dollars. Stoned hippies have had more success than Libertaians and they are off there tits for most of the time on pot.

Democracy is a theory that has been put into practice around the world and guess what it has been pretty successful.

The point you seem to miss is theories actually being put into practice are different from theories that are just theories with no practical application. Libertarianism has no practical application in modern society.

 

[smk762]

The largest practical application of Libertarianism that has been put into practice is a small community in Chile where it crashed and burned in less than 12 months and all the rich smart Libertarians got ripped off for millions of dollars. Stoned hippies have had more success than Libertaians and they are off there tits for most of the time on pot.

Maybe we should legalise pot, which is a step towards libertarianism, and see if stoned libertarians are more effective than capitalist libertarians.

 

[boyd_05]

Keep moving the goal posts buddy. lol, hilarious