Hosane Auction Results BS????

jc888888888 said:
yennus said:
Thanks for your thoughts hem9. I agree with the principle of Occams Razor, which is why I don't think pump and dump (or bribery) is the right angle.

As given in the example above, the only real winner in such a pump and dump scam would be Hosane (10% from the seller, 15% from the buyer).

For me, the simplest explanation is: Modern Chinese Coins are a hot investment at the moment.

I agree with happydaz, many Chinese investors follow the trend, and with huge wealth (and a huge population) the resulting prices can be amazing.
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The theory of huge wealth and huge population GETS MY VOTE, come here to the US , go to a high end shopping mall ......... Coach, Louis Vitton, stores are bustling people dropping 2000usd on a handbag......10K on luggage, 90% of the clientel are Asian and 90% of them are chinese......... New found incredible wealth all over China , I just had chinese visitors who are in electronics biz , these ladies are in their mid 30,s , buying diamonds ,high end watches etc to the tune of 50,000.00 in 1 day........ these same folks are dying to convert a big portion of their wealth out of RMB to hard assets.......... what do they care if they pay to much for something they know will appreciate in value ..............
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Haha, that is how Chinese do. My friend went to the US a few years ago, bought a very high quality 2c+ diamond for his wife, did not take to thnink long. This kind of investment as well as making the wife happy, he did care about the money.
 
All I can say is yes, the mainland Chinese have a lot of money and are willing to spend. $$$
But they are willing to splash big $$$ on Coach, LV etc in N America because
a) Prices and selection here are better than in Asia. They are not paying double or triple the price for comparable product here when compared tp China /HKG/Asia.

Brand names are incredibly cheap in N America compared to Asia.

I will give you an simple example of Levis Dockers.

Asian Price around CAD$80.00 with no sales.

Canadian price, just wait for Sears to have their routine weekend sale... CAD$35 - $40.00 So there is no doubt they will splash on items which are cheaper here than in China.

This does not mean that they are willing to pay double or triple price for MCC which can be gotten for cheaper outside of China. This may only be the case if this coins cannot be brought into China.

If the Chinese market had such huge demand we wouldn't see Xu Hong, Naomi, Thincat etc hawking their wares on ebay...
 
Canadian price, just wait for Sears to have their routine weekend sale... CAD$35 - $40.00 So there is no doubt they will splash on items which are cheaper here than in China
US price at wholesale club like Cosco 22 usd
 
The bottom line is these folks don't trust the paper RMB, remember it was not too long ago..............., their grandparents can tell them stories of the cultural revolution ,people being stripped of there wealth ,people hungry etc etc.................I think that is part of the allure of hard assets ,plus Chinese have been metal bugs for a 1000 of years
 
If the Chinese market had such huge demand we wouldn't see Xu Hong, Naomi, Thincat etc hawking their wares on ebay... this pure speculation on my part is it possible these guys are trying to get there hands on AUD,USD?????????
 
jc888888888 said:
If the Chinese market had such huge demand we wouldn't see Xu Hong, Naomi, Thincat etc hawking their wares on ebay... this pure speculation on my part is it possible these guys are trying to get there hands on AUD,USD?????????
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+1
 
jc888888888 said:
If the Chinese market had such huge demand we wouldn't see Xu Hong, Naomi, Thincat etc hawking their wares on ebay... this pure speculation on my part is it possible these guys are trying to get there hands on AUD,USD?????????
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Is very possible. They will have a account in other/s currency/s and offshore china. Is a good move to diversify to chinese assets ans rmb and the apartaments bubbles.
 
I can't comment on the MCC, but I did see some of the most amazing, simply unbelievable, absolutely crazy price paid for some of the most commonly available, ungraded (by TPG), AU/UNC (according to Hosane) 1912 Szechuan silver $1.

I wish the result is real, even if it means I have to sell them through Hosane. There are a ton of them available, both graded and raw, and they are insanely cheap compared to Hosane.
 
low said:
I can't comment on the MCC, but I did see some of the most amazing, simply unbelievable, absolutely crazy price paid for some of the most commonly available, ungraded (by TPG), AU/UNC (according to Hosane) 1912 Szechuan silver $1.

I wish the result is real, even if it means I have to sell them through Hosane. There are a ton of them available, both graded and raw, and they are insanely cheap compared to Hosane.
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I hope that the results are real as well, as i have tens of exact same sets as Lot#1513, anyone here interested in purchasing from me for AUD$500/set? Hosane sold over AUD$2000/set, huge bargain buying from me, isn't it? :D
 
jc888888888 said:
If the Chinese market had such huge demand we wouldn't see Xu Hong, Naomi, Thincat etc hawking their wares on ebay... this pure speculation on my part is it possible these guys are trying to get there hands on AUD,USD?????????
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I have a lot of experience with clients from China. There is a local Chinese Mall called Crystal Mall in Burnaby. There are people down there who can handle transfers of up to CAD$500,000 within 12 hours without a problem. You deposit $500,000 in RMB/CNY into their account in China and they will transfer that equivalent in CAD$ into your Canadian Account within 12 hours. There is a handling fee of course. I work for a local property development company and from what I hear this transactions are routine. It is very easy for the wealthy to skirt Currency control laws in China. I have a client who bought NINETY apartments from us in the last 5 years. According to him, this is his exact words, buying property is his "hobby". Just like the majority of us here who collect coins... and this guy is very shrewd with his $$$ . I don't see him just throwing his $ around paying double or triple for items which are readily available for much cheaper in other markets.
 
Unfortunately/fortunately not all forms of silver and gold are equal.

Hopefully those who do their homework, can work out which forms of silver and gold are more desirable.

The difference between the two can either prosper ones investment, or merely preserve it.

Bullion is generally a hedge against inflation, but some collectibles (e.g. Pandas) actually make profits.

Just saying. :)
 
yennus said:
Occams Razor :)

Why the high prices?

a) Bribes and money laundering
b) Pump and dump
c) High quality coins combined with high demand.
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For those that are too lazy to read the above post, the answer is........

B) Pump and dump
 
Not quite... the coin in question was dumped for potentially less than $140,000USD of its expected price... NOT more than its expected price.

The coin in question is an issue of legal title NOT whether Hosane prices are an accurate reflection of the market.
 
After doing more investigating, itappears that Zhao purchases coins and then places these coins in either the Hosane or the Zhao-on-line auctions and inflates the prices. After the price is inflated by the on line auction, these coins are offered to the public, referencing the auction price realized. In addition, it also appears Zhao-on-line sells many raw coins that have flaws. Some of these raw coins are purchased by nave collectors so Zhao gets away with this practice.
 
yennus said:
Not quite... the coin in question was dumped for potentially less than $140,000USD of its expected price... NOT more than its expected price.

The coin in question is an issue of legal title NOT whether Hosane prices are an accurate reflection of the market.
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Not true. If you read Nick's article, it is the fact Daniel Zhao knew about the missing coin, BEFORE he purchased the coin.

Here the question is honesty, not legal title.

Where honesty is in question:

1. Daniel Zhao "found" the missing coin, but choose not to inform the owner.
2. Daniel Zhao quoted a price of less than 50% of the value.

Anyone can say anything here, including Mr. Zhao grabbing a bargain here.

I agree with Nick when he said:
"I choose not to do business with a person or company like this. I have to feel good about the person I am purchasing from. These are my feelings and thoughts. There are many great Modern chinese coin dealers in China, US and Europe, why choose to work with and support a questionable dealer as mentioned above. "
 
You're completely off topic Low.

This thread is discussing whether Hosane Auction's reflect an accurate market value for MCCs, NOT whether Daniel Zhao is honest or not.
 
I don't think Hosane represents true market prices. You may have snagged some good buys yennus but the integrity of Hosane has been compromised by this douchebag Daniel Zhao and the results are questionable (if they weren't already; $700 for MS67 S10Y frosted 2000? lol)

Unfortunately it is likely that this douchebag has been manipulating auction prices in ZhaoOnline and/or Hosane to suit his own needs of 'inflating' prices and turning around and stating that as 'market price' even though a real sale never took place.

I would not trust Champion auctions as market price since the cosigners can bid on their own auctions and I would not trust Hosane to give an accurate reflection of market price.

In the numismatic market it is much easier to tarnish a reputation than to build it up. Many companies have learned this the hard way (eg. RCC).

Their prices realized from now on (re: Hosane) will always be suspect.
 
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