Hosane Auction Results BS????

Griffon said:
yennus said:
I don't agree with the bribe idea being passed around in this thread:
1. There are easier ways to pass money to someone.
2. Neither party to a bribe wants a paper trail, and that is what is generated at an auction.
3. An auction is an incredibly expensive way to pass a bribe, hosane gets 10% from the seller and 15% from the buyer... Incredibly expensive way of slipping cash to someone.
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Hi Chris,

agreed that it's off the topic as it's a panda forum

however, it's somehow relevant to all MCC investor/collector to understand the reason behind massive price discrepancy evidenced in auctions. image someone who is unfamiliar about this paid top dollars for some common coins because of reference to auction house realised price but stunt later only to find out that the "bargain" only worths a friction of the purchase price at the time of resell? It's a crime in China for gov official unable to explaine the source of income (i.e. officers receiving large amount of money without a valid reason is a crime) but Discipllinary Committee of the Chinese Communist Party will regard auction income as a legitimite income thus both parties involved in auction, even with paper trail, will be trouble free.

I am not saying that all lots in Hosane auction are bribes or trying to bring down MCC collectors passion, i am just trying to offer an alternative view into understanding auction results and caution everyone to do the research before giving away their hard earned money.

if you do not like it or feel offended in any ways, feel free to delete the post

cheers

Roy
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It is gotta be understand of Chinese investors, anything could be possible as long as there is a trend. Chinese investors don't care what realistic is as long as they like, the result prices can be ridiculous. Hosane is a small small auction in China compare to what I have seen on the news on TV.
 
Has anyone thought of the principle of Occams Razor which states 'All things being equal; the simplest explanation is usually the right one'. How simple would it be for a group of people to pay unrealistic prices for items in a small auction for the purpose of showing 'huge' price gains thus unloading their own items for overvalued prices (using this auction as a basis). Simple pump and dump and not expensive compared to potential returns. Please note: Just my opinion if we are looking for conspiracies.
 
Thanks for your thoughts hem9. I agree with the principle of Occams Razor, which is why I don't think pump and dump (or bribery) is the right angle.

As given in the example above, the only real winner in such a pump and dump scam would be Hosane (10% from the seller, 15% from the buyer).

For me, the simplest explanation is: Modern Chinese Coins are a hot investment at the moment.

I agree with happydaz, many Chinese investors follow the trend, and with huge wealth (and a huge population) the resulting prices can be amazing.
 
yennus said:
Thanks for your thoughts hem9. I agree with the principle of Occams Razor, which is why I don't think pump and dump (or bribery) is the right angle.

As given in the example above, the only real winner in such a pump and dump scam would be Hosane (10% from the seller, 15% from the buyer).

For me, the simplest explanation is: Modern Chinese Coins are a hot investment at the moment.

I agree with happydaz, many Chinese investors follow the trend, and with huge wealth (and a huge population) the resulting prices can be amazing.
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The theory of huge wealth and huge population GETS MY VOTE, come here to the US , go to a high end shopping mall ......... Coach, Louis Vitton, stores are bustling people dropping 2000usd on a handbag......10K on luggage, 90% of the clientel are Asian and 90% of them are chinese......... New found incredible wealth all over China , I just had chinese visitors who are in electronics biz , these ladies are in their mid 30,s , buying diamonds ,high end watches etc to the tune of 50,000.00 in 1 day........ these same folks are dying to convert a big portion of their wealth out of RMB to hard assets.......... what do they care if they pay to much for something they know will appreciate in value ..............
 
After everything has been said, why do the big MCC dealers sell like Xu Hong and Naomi bother selling their sets on ebay?
They can double or even triple their money in their own backyard.
Something just doesn't add up.

For example the Silk Road set which sold for $11K . You can BIN on ebay for less than 50% of the price from a Mainland or Taiwanese dealer.
 
silverfever said:
After everything has been said, why do the big MCC dealers sell like Xu Hong and Naomi bother selling their sets on ebay?
They can double or even triple their money in their own backyard.
Something just doesn't add up.

For example the Silk Road set which sold for $11K . You can BIN on ebay for less than 50% of the price from a Mainland or Taiwanese dealer.
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I dont know all the facts so I cant make a judgement; but I think you are on to something as if anything the present crisis teaches us is to use common sense and scrutinise things that does not add up.
 
jc888888888 said:
yennus said:
Thanks for your thoughts hem9. I agree with the principle of Occams Razor, which is why I don't think pump and dump (or bribery) is the right angle.

As given in the example above, the only real winner in such a pump and dump scam would be Hosane (10% from the seller, 15% from the buyer).

For me, the simplest explanation is: Modern Chinese Coins are a hot investment at the moment.

I agree with happydaz, many Chinese investors follow the trend, and with huge wealth (and a huge population) the resulting prices can be amazing.
Click to expand...
The theory of huge wealth and huge population GETS MY VOTE, come here to the US , go to a high end shopping mall ......... Coach, Louis Vitton, stores are bustling people dropping 2000usd on a handbag......10K on luggage, 90% of the clientel are Asian and 90% of them are chinese......... New found incredible wealth all over China , I just had chinese visitors who are in electronics biz , these ladies are in their mid 30,s , buying diamonds ,high end watches etc to the tune of 50,000.00 in 1 day........ these same folks are dying to convert a big portion of their wealth out of RMB to hard assets.......... what do they care if they pay to much for something they know will appreciate in value ..............
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That can be a valid explanation but I am sure someone said the same thing when they tried to explain the reason property prices kept going up around the world and the rest is history.
 
All that it takes is a couple of folks with unlimited funds in an auction setting ,that simply just want something... I have seen it here ,rare cars, rare art ,and coins too........
 
jc888888888 said:
All that it takes is a couple of folks with unlimited funds in an auction setting ,that simply just want something... I have seen it here ,rare cars, rare art ,and coins too........
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and that is the crux of the OP's question as he feels that the prices achieved in this auction is in his words 'BS' and thus cannot be relied upon give accurate idea of price as in the next auction there might not be these people with 'unlimited' funds and people using this prices as a baseline will be misled.
 
Hahah... I'm glad you mentioned the Silk Road set that sold for $11K. :)

This set was a perfect NGC PF70 set.

I don't think you'll find a BIN set for anywhere near half this price :)
 
yennus said:
Hahah... I'm glad you mentioned the Silk Road set that sold for $11K. :)

This set was a perfect NGC PF70 set.

I don't think you'll find a BIN set for anywhere near half this price :)
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Thanks for clarifying that the complete set was a Slabbed MS70 because the this important detail was not included in the lot description.

Wondering about the 1986 Historical Figures which sold for over US$1500? Was this set graded too?
I see Xu Hong has a couple of sets on BIN right now for $468.00

http://www.hosane.com/productdetail.asp?auctionid=G12061&pieceCode=1680&Page=12
 
There was an article in the news yesterday about how real estate agents use an overpriced property to sell cheaper ones in the same neighborhood. First they take buyers to the expensive one, and afterward show them the less expensive house, or flat, that they really want to move. The buyer usually notices that the second place is a better deal, and buys that one.

There's always a contest between buyers and sellers to control the perception of value, and collectors should keep that in mind. Speaking for China Pricepedia, my position is that a price guide should be equally valuable to both parties. If it tilts one way or the other, that's not good. So I use information from my contacts who were at an auction (including this one), as well as other sources, to decide if a price is useful, or isn't. Just because an auction price is very high, or very low, doesn't mean it's not useful, it just means I like to get some answers about where it is coming from.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.com
 
hem9 said:
jc888888888 said:
All that it takes is a couple of folks with unlimited funds in an auction setting ,that simply just want something... I have seen it here ,rare cars, rare art ,and coins too........
Click to expand...

and that is the crux of the OP's question as he feels that the prices achieved in this auction is in his words 'BS' and thus cannot be relied upon give accurate idea of price as in the next auction there might not be these people with 'unlimited' funds and people using this prices as a baseline will be misled.
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and prudent buyers IMHO doing a price appraisal on a coin , should in fact follow the same tact that certified real estate appraisers do in this country, I use this formula my self ...........Take as many verifiable sales as possible on a coin ,And here is the important part that many buyers and sellers leave out for convieniance sake:) make sure they are apples to apples comparisons , ie graded ,raw or omp ,now take out the high price sale and discard it, take out the low price sale and discard it also ,now do your average ...if it is more than 10 samples lets say 20 samples than take 2 off top and 2 off bottom etc..............
 
yennus said:
Hahah... I'm glad you mentioned the Silk Road set that sold for $11K. :)

This set was a perfect NGC PF70 set.

I don't think you'll find a BIN set for anywhere near half this price :)
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no wonder:)
 
Occams Razor :)

Why the high prices?

a) Bribes and money laundering
b) Pump and dump
c) High quality coins combined with high demand.
 
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