Hosane Auction Results BS????

1993 CHINA S5Y INVENTION&DISCOVERY SET, NGC PF69/68UC

Item number: 200771152613

$1688.88


INVENTION OF THE UMBRELLA - NGC PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
TERRACOTTA ARMY - NGC PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
DEFINITION OF ZERO - NGC PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
INVENTION OF THE STIRRUP - NGC PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
CHIN-YIN YANG - NGC PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
 
I saw back in March raw coins on a site I can not remember which one selling for $50 to $90 a coin. They looked like they were in good condition
 
silverfever said:
I saw back in March raw coins on a site I can not remember which one selling for $50 to $90 a coin. They looked like they were in good condition
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Than you could easily get a set around $400-$500.00


Another questionable price

1986 Historical figures set sells for Us $1587.00!!!!!!!
http://www.hosane.com/productdetail.asp?auctionid=G12061&pieceCode=1680&Page=12

I bought a complete PF 69 NGC graded set for $450.00
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auctions in mainland China is well known as a form for money laundry or bribe.

for example, person A wants to give a bribe to a corrupted gov official, instead of handling over cash which may cause problems, he would ask the officer to put any somehow value items (coins, china bowl, jade etc. etc.) in public auction and bid to the money that the officer is after. If you see realised prices that dealers are not even charging, you know what's happening behind the door.

but bear in mind that Chinese gov is said to inject a further 4 billion RMB into capital markets so even just a small portion of it flows into coin market will see the prices doubled or maybe tripled.
 
Being at the auction in person makes a difference. Especially when you can inspect the coins.

I was at this auction, and know some of the people that organized it.

I trust them enough that I'm confident that i will be selling some of my collection there next round.
 
did not check all lots but one typical example of a possible bribe/money laundry is lot#1513, an extermely common set easily available anywhere for USD$6 (or RMB 35) sold RMB 13800 includes BP
 
I don't agree with the bribe idea being passed around in this thread:
1. There are easier ways to pass money to someone.
2. Neither party to a bribe wants a paper trail, and that is what is generated at an auction.
3. An auction is an incredibly expensive way to pass a bribe, hosane gets 10% from the seller and 15% from the buyer... Incredibly expensive way of slipping cash to someone.
 
Griffon said:
did not check all lots but one typical example of a possible bribe/money laundry is lot#1513, an extermely common set easily available anywhere for USD$6 (or RMB 35) sold RMB 13800 includes BP
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I was watching this item.

I don't think it's a bribe at all.

It sold for 12,000RMB (approx. $2000AUD).

If it were a bribe:
The person paying the bribe pays Hosane: 1,800RMB
The person receiving the bribe pays Hosane: 1,200RMB
The person receiving the bribe only receives 10,800RMB

The only real winner in this "bribe" would be Hosane, who receives 3,000RMB

All this trouble for just $1714AUD (10,800RMB)? Easier to slip someone a wad of cash in a handshake, or under the table during dinner.

This is like someone saying, "Ebay in the West is well known as a form for money laundry or bribe."
 
yennus said:
I don't agree with the bribe idea being passed around in this thread:
1. There are easier ways to pass money to someone.
2. Neither party to a bribe wants a paper trail, and that is what is generated at an auction.
3. An auction is an incredibly expensive way to pass a bribe, hosane gets 10% from the seller and 15% from the buyer... Incredibly expensive way of slipping cash to someone.
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Hi Chris,

agreed that it's off the topic as it's a panda forum

however, it's somehow relevant to all MCC investor/collector to understand the reason behind massive price discrepancy evidenced in auctions. image someone who is unfamiliar about this paid top dollars for some common coins because of reference to auction house realised price but stunt later only to find out that the "bargain" only worths a friction of the purchase price at the time of resell? It's a crime in China for gov official unable to explaine the source of income (i.e. officers receiving large amount of money without a valid reason is a crime) but Discipllinary Committee of the Chinese Communist Party will regard auction income as a legitimite income thus both parties involved in auction, even with paper trail, will be trouble free.

I am not saying that all lots in Hosane auction are bribes or trying to bring down MCC collectors passion, i am just trying to offer an alternative view into understanding auction results and caution everyone to do the research before giving away their hard earned money.

if you do not like it or feel offended in any ways, feel free to delete the post

cheers

Roy
 
Lightsview said:
Pandacollector said:
I doubt these prices represent bribes.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.coma
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Hi Peter, you mentioned in CCF that Pricepedia will not report some prices from this auction. Any reason for that?
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The CCF comment was a response to a specific price that someone else posted. I don't believe that number is a good gauge to what these coins usually go for. If this was an actively traded coin(s) for which there were 10 other results that would be a different story; it would be easy to see what the average is, and how this sale relates to others. Because so few of these coins change hands, though, a single extraordinary auction price can have more influence than it deserves to have. So I use my own judgement about whether to report it, or not. This doesn't come up often, fortunately.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.coma
 
Griffon said:
agreed that it's off the topic as it's a panda forum

however, it's somehow relevant to all MCC investor/collector to understand the reason behind massive price discrepancy evidenced in auctions. image someone who is unfamiliar about this paid top dollars for some common coins because of reference to auction house realised price but stunt later only to find out that the "bargain" only worths a friction of the purchase price at the time of resell? It's a crime in China for gov official unable to explaine the source of income (i.e. officers receiving large amount of money without a valid reason is a crime) but Discipllinary Committee of the Chinese Communist Party will regard auction income as a legitimite income thus both parties involved in auction, even with paper trail, will be trouble free.

I am not saying that all lots in Hosane auction are bribes or trying to bring down MCC collectors passion, i am just trying to offer an alternative view into understanding auction results and caution everyone to do the research before giving away their hard earned money.
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Thanks Griffon for your courtesy, politeness, and your thoughts.

I just don't agree that the bribe hypothesis is the best explanation behind the high prices for some coins.

In my opinion, it is more likely the case, that we don't fully understand what is desirable in the Chinese Modern Coin scene.

For example, many Chinese wouldn't understand why a specific Australian 1930 penny would go for $100,000AUD, while most other pennies go for pennies. :)

Similarly, receiving bribes through auctions wouldn't be very smart.. because that would incur massive Capital Gains Tax plus a lot of red flags (plus a whole lot of commissions to Hosane).
 
Pandacollector said:
Lightsview said:
Pandacollector said:
I doubt these prices represent bribes.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.coma
Click to expand...


Hi Peter, you mentioned in CCF that Pricepedia will not report some prices from this auction. Any reason for that?
Click to expand...


The CCF comment was a response to a specific price that someone else posted. I don't believe that number is a good gauge to what these coins usually go for. If this was an actively traded coin(s) for which there were 10 other results that would be a different story; it would be easy to see what the average is, and how this sale relates to others. Because so few of these coins change hands, though, a single extraordinary auction price can have more influence than it deserves to have. So I use my own judgement about whether to report it, or not. This doesn't come up often, fortunately.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
http://www.pandacollector.coma
Click to expand...


Thanks Peter for that clarification.
 
more like a father in law, (coins lover) want to 'tekan' the son in law

or a brother is law (2B), who is a member here is trying to make life difficult :lol: for the new comer in the family ?
 
yennus said:
Being at the auction in person makes a difference. Especially when you can inspect the coins.

I was at this auction, and know some of the people that organized it.

I trust them enough that I'm confident that i will be selling some of my collection there next round.
Click to expand...

lets talk :) I love those prices , I have no problem sending coins to you to auction for me and I will gladly pay commission to you my friend ,those prices are wow:),I have RMB account on mainland:)
 
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