'Experts' call for GST revamp

GoldenEgg

Member
GST key to tax reform, says Nick Greiner

by: DAVID UREN, ECONOMICS EDITOR
From: The Australian
November 03, 2012


THE former premier hand-picked to review the carve-up of the GST has warned the tax is failing to deliver the revenue expected of it and has called for a national debate about its rate and scope.

The GST review, led by Nick Greiner, was delivered to Wayne Swan yesterday and says the tax is becoming an unstable source of revenue for the states.

The review, which was called by the Treasurer in March following complaints by Western Australia about the fairness of the system for dividing the GST pool, was not designed to look at the rate of the tax or what it covered.

The former NSW Liberal leader said yesterday they were "a much more important issue" and the distribution of the GST was a "second-order issue".

"It's not in our terms of reference but the report does deal with the size and stability of the (GST) pool as well as its distribution, although I don't know that the Prime Minister or the Treasurer, who asked us to go do it, really wanted us to go there," Mr Greiner told the Securing Australia's Future conference sponsored by The Australian and Melbourne University.


Mr Greiner said that although the distribution of the GST was important to state treasurers, it did not go to the heart of the fiscal challenge they faced. "The overwhelming problem is that the size of the GST isn't growing the way it was intended to and not growing anything like the growth in health expenditure," he said.

The deal concluded by the Howard government before the 2001 introduction of GST included the exemption of food, health and education.

Mr Greiner's comments are likely to intensify the fight over the $50 billion in annual GST collections as sluggish consumer spending leads to a slowdown in revenue growth, forcing state treasurers to slash their revenue forecasts.

The big Coalition states are demanding a new approach to the way GST is allocated, including a bigger share for the major resource states, but are divided on whether to consider increasing the overall take.

NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell and Treasurer Mike Baird both declared in September that the base and rate of the tax could be up for debate, but Mr Baird told The Weekend Australian last night that his "first consideration" was the way many online purchases were exempt.

Queensland Treasurer Tim Nicholls said his government did not support a GST increase but instead wanted Canberra to close loopholes in the tax to prevent revenue being lost.

Business Council of Australia president Tony Shepherd and chief executive Jennifer Westacott have made the case for a shift in the nation's tax mix to collect more from consumption taxes, to ease other imposts on businesses and households.

Former Treasury secretary Ken Henry warned in July that states were at risk from slowing GST growth and that the nation needed to adjust to higher consumption taxes, while former Board of Taxation chairman Dick Warburton has urged a debate on increasing the tax.

Finance Minister Penny Wong said yesterday the government's opposition to increasing the GST was well known. "The Treasurer has made very clear he's ruled out changes to the base or the rate," she told the conference.

Senator Wong conceded the budget did face long-term structural problems, with the tax base getting narrower as the ageing reduced the share of the population in the workforce.

"Without change and on current settings these factors will lead to a sustained period of fiscal imbalance," she said.

"This will require more than just policy. It will also require the polity to face up to these facts."

Grattan Institute director John Daley said the GST tax base appeared to be permanently damaged. He said budget forecasts anticipated that company and individual taxes would rise above the level of 2008-09, when the global financial crisis struck. He expected GST receipts would still be below that level by 2015-16.

"It's not that people are buying stuff off the internet," he said. "It is that they are increasingly buying things that are not subject to GST, particularly health and education.

"Also, people are saving a lot more and GST is an expenditure tax. Australian consumers are now saving about 10 per cent of their disposable income and that doesn't fall to the GST net."

Deloitte Access Economics director Chris Richardson said one of the reasons why GST receipts were falling was because economic growth was now being driven by business investment, whereas in the lead-up to the global financial crisis it was led by consumer spending. Investment spending was tax deductible.

Opposition finance spokesman Andrew Robb said that if successful at the next election, the Coalition's first priority would be removing the carbon and mining taxes. However, it would prepare a white paper on tax reform in its first term of office to take to the 2016 election. He said reform should be comprehensive, not a piece-meal change to a single tax such as GST.

Tony Abbott recently said the Coalition had no plans to change the GST - "none whatsoever". Mr Greiner said there needed to be a debate involving all levels of government about the scope of government and the preparedness of the community to pay for the services it delivered.

He said state governments had no choice but to cut public servants if they wanted to make savings, because that is where 80 per cent of their spending was.

Mr Greiner said at it was naive to imagine that the funds raised by an increase in the GST could simply be directed to lowering other taxes. He said when the GST was eventually increased, funds would be directed to expenditure and to delivering compensation.

Reserve Bank board member and Keating government adviser John Edwards said he did not believe that raising the GST rate and extending it to food, education and health, and using it to lower the company and personal income tax rates, was politically feasible. "In fact, there is very little revenue to be gained in the net sense from health and education, which are very largely funded by government," Dr Edwards said.

"What you are really suggesting ... is we are going to increase the price of fresh food by 10 per cent and we are going to give the proceeds to a reduction in corporate tax and to marginal personal rates. Politically, that has nothing going for it. It has no chance of being adopted by any political party."

Damn those people spending money on education, health and fresh food! Don't they know they are ruining the economy??
Commentators are correct that it would be political suicide but it should be obvious to even the most dim person that putting a GST on fresh food would cost the country more in the long run as the price would go up, less people would buy it and people health would deteriorate thus bumping the health budget further.It's not often i agree with the greens but the facts are undeniable, the GST affects the poor the most and it is a bad tax.
 
Greens want the MRRT to be hiked to 45% so that the extra proceeds can be given to those on Newstart or to education (Christine Milne).

Spose they could always close down the Climate Change department and take it's predicted $1,551,087,000 of appropriations and spend that on Newstart people or education. But that's probably not the way things work.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Greens want the MRRT to be hiked to 45% so that the extra proceeds can be given to those on Newstart or to education (Christine Milne).

Spose they could always close down the Climate Change department and take it's predicted $1,551,087,000 of appropriations and spend that on Newstart people or education. But that's probably not the way things work.

Doncha know that saving the environment by reducing global emissions by 0.1% is far more important that silly things like health and education :P This is why the Chinese/Indians/etc are so evil by selfishly prioritising silly things like living standards for the poverty stricken over the environment.
 
Unbelievable. These "experts" are over charging and ripping us left right and centre and it's still not enough for them!

Wasn't all that extra cigarette tax revenue good enough?

Maybe they could target fast food joints instead of raising the GST on everything.

Let the junk food addicted guys pay their share instead of punishing everyone.

Grhhh.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Greens want the MRRT to be hiked to 45% so that the extra proceeds can be given to those on Newstart or to education (Christine Milne).

Spose they could always close down the Climate Change department and take it's predicted $1,551,087,000 of appropriations and spend that on Newstart people or education. But that's probably not the way things work.
They also want gold added to the list of minerals that the MMRT affects.
Been hearing reports also they want to change the way alcohol is taxed with cask wine going up to $27 per 4 litre cask.If that happens then many people on newstart will be screaming even harder for a hike in the rate!
 
I wouldn't be opposed to an increase in GST (Including food) as long as there was a correspondingly large drop in personal taxation. My view is GST penalises consumption, whereas income tax penalises production.
 
Nick Greiner is not an "expert" in anything.

He's an ex-premier who now earns big bucks as a director-for-hire and occasionally someone is stupid enough to ask him about public policy.

He wasn't asked about the rate of GST but he obviously took this as a chance to pontificate out loud anyway.

Kindly p*** off Mr Greiner, and you can take your Sydney transport plan and your GST report with you.
 
Just wealth redistribution in another guise. "Raise GST, deliver compensation".

So a tax hike followed by more handouts to lower socio-economic groups to compensate for the tax hike, paid for by the tax hike. "Equality" they call it.

How far does it go before everyone simply has their pay channeled directly to the ATO, and we all get little smart cards (red in colour of course) preloaded with an allowance for food, petrol, doctors visits etc. Boiling the frog.

"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

- Alexis de Tocqueville
 
THE former premier hand-picked to review the carve-up of the GST has warned the tax is failing to deliver the revenue expected of it

The irony is that any drop in GST revenue is a symptom of a drop in consumption, which in turn is a result of an impoverished middle class trying to save. Further increasing the cost of living with taxing food and increasing the GST tax rate is not in the interests of the people already struggling under crazy levels of household debt.

But what do you expect from career politicians who ride you every second of every day for all you are worth and give cushy jobs to crony consultants?

A breathing tax and an eating tax! When they figure out a way to tax you for sleeping they will do that too.
 
USA but the principle is the same
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/mar...t-going-to-believe-how-much-shes-paid-so-far/

"I just started looking through all of our receipts and tax filings from the past year and made columns for each," she explained. The middle class Dundalk, MD, resident notes that she had to expand her list a number of times due to the hidden taxes she kept discovering. The average entry features a relatively small amount, sometimes only pennies, but it is all there. Gas taxes, state and federal taxes, special Maryland alcohol tax, cell phone taxes and "Bay Restoration Fees," road tolls, mandatory union dues, and on and on.

Eyepopper moment:

"Telephone fees include: MD 911 fee, Federal Excise Tax, MD local tax, Federal Universal Service fee, MD Gross Receipts Tax surcharge, Telecommunications Access of MD fee, Federal Subscriber line charge, Md State sales tax, PEG Grant fee, Regulatory Recovery Fee Federal, Video Franchise Fee"
These fees are all the more infuriating to Scanlon when contrasted with the federal grant for free cell phones that received recent attention. The Heritage Foundation's Foundry reports:

Welfare recipients in approximately 20 stateswith more to follow are currently eligible to receive a free cell phone with a limited number of monthly minutes. All individuals that qualify for state or federal welfarefood stamps, Medicaid, etc.and have an income at or below 135% of the poverty level, are eligible. According to a Fox News report, the cell phone service is currently the fastest growing welfare program in the country.
 
Senator Wong - "Without change and on current settings these factors will lead to a sustained period of fiscal imbalance"

I have a simple solution. Just. Spend. Less.
 
Great way to stimulate a flagging economy, tax it harder and slow it down even more. Is there some exam that you have to take to prove that you are clinically stupid before you are allowed to become a politician?
 
GoldenEgg said:
It's not often i agree with the greens but the facts are undeniable, the GST affects the poor the most and it is a bad tax.
^^^ -1

mmm....shiney! said:
I wouldn't be opposed to an increase in GST (Including food) as long as there was a correspondingly large drop in personal taxation. My view is GST penalises consumption, whereas income tax penalises production.
^^^ +1
 
Not sure if my memory serves me correctly. But wasn't there a political promise that the 10% GST rate would NEVER be increased. I think this was when/before it was introduced.
 
Big A.D. said:
Nick Greiner is not an "expert" in anything.

He's an ex-premier who now earns big bucks as a director-for-hire and occasionally someone is stupid enough to ask him about public policy.

He wasn't asked about the rate of GST but he obviously took this as a chance to pontificate out loud anyway.

Kindly p*** off Mr Greiner, and you can take your Sydney transport plan and your GST report with you.

Agreed he's in good company though, most of the labor front bench are in portfolios that are not there speciality
 
There was no promise that it wouldn't go up, the promise is that it wouldn't go up unless all states and territories and the feds agree
 
goldpelican said:
Just wealth redistribution in another guise. "Raise GST, deliver compensation".

So a tax hike followed by more handouts to lower socio-economic groups to compensate for the tax hike, paid for by the tax hike. "Equality" they call it.

How far does it go before everyone simply has their pay channeled directly to the ATO, and we all get little smart cards (red in colour of course) preloaded with an allowance for food, petrol, doctors visits etc. Boiling the frog.

"Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

- Alexis de Tocqueville

You're not getting all libertarian on us now are you? :P
 
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