Do you need Certificates when selling Silver 1kg PAMP bars?

Au-mageddon

Au-mageddon

Active Member
Long story short, I bought a few PAMP 1kg bars of a fellow stacker, but whilst the bars arrived, the C of A's did not.

Whilst this may not be of concern to dealers, most likely I will be trading with stackers here or on ebay (when I eventually come to sell).

Last thing I want is someone lowballing me because I dont have "all the goods".

SO ... Any ideas if there have been problems caused by selling PAMP bars without C of A's or if the certificates can be re-issued from PAMP ??

Thanks in advance,

Au-
 
I wouldn't even ask about the certificate if I was purchasing silver.

It is that unimportant.
 
What grinners said.

goldpelican said it best when he made the point, and I paraphrase, ... "they're made of paper people, c'mon!"
 
BootyBandit said:
id pay more to have it without the certificate
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Excellent! In which case I have some one kg PAMPS for you at what I paid plus, let's say, hmmmm 10, no, 7, oh all right 5%. Because I did the same as AU and haven't been smart enough to think it might be a problem and ask you guys!!! Conversely, I'll buy yours at spot plus 4% if you like!

:D :D :D :D
 
To me, certificates indicate the person who owns (or owned) them "takes care of his PAMPS" and pretty much more likely indicates basically "keeping your purchases in order with everything they came with". A bit like keeping the instructions and original box for electronics you buy off someone; it's very nice.

So I (would) place a (reasonable) premium on a completist who offers for sale everything that came with the items. Assuming they came with his items.

However, I don't think they are needed when selling, specifically. Not everyone is anal :) It's just nice to have everything that originally came with a purchase.
 
Obviously some of my customers are pedants - all my Pamp & Metalor bars have certs - and when it comes to a newbie customer buying 5/10kg they like to have them - even if just to show 'em to the girlfriend/hubby, whatever... I've often heard of dealers offering less for bars without 'em, right or wrong... especially in UK, Germany & EU, where they're regarded as a kind of collectable birth certificate...
 
I was at the NZ mint a few days ago and they scolded me when I told them my bars didn't have certificates. "demand them upon purchase next time" they said. I personally don't think it's a huge issue.. But guess if you were selling back to nz mint they would appreciate them.
 
unfunkable said:
I tried selling a pamp bar for spot + 15 a while ago. No cert. No bites.
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I hope that isn't the norm .. I bought some PAMPS just the other day and the buyer didnt have any certs
 
As it has already been noted, I like the certificates as it proves the previous owner(s) looked after what they had.

Not essential by any means but if given the option I'd take a bar with a certificate. Having said that I would not pay less if it were missing and was my only choice :)
 
My counter point would be that they are not car log books.

Seriously - we're talking kilo bullion bars, not numismatics COAs - PAMP include them as a market differentiator (gimmick) to make their bars appear more prestigious. I like PAMP kilos, and have more than a couple in my personal stack - but I'm stacking physical, not paper, the certificates are just not required.

Unfortunately as more and more people enter the silver market, this sort of differentiator just causes problems - I get *lots* of customers wanting Perth Mint certificates with their PM silver bars - they see the word Certificate Program on the PM website something and assume that all bars come with an assay certificate, and that the bars are inferior or can't be trusted if they don't come with a certificate. Education is all that is needed - which is why I keep banging on about the PAMP certificates being a waste of perfectly good carbon atoms (unless you like to run micro carbon sequestration programs in your safe).
 
goldpelican said:
Education is all that is needed - which is why I keep banging on about the PAMP certificates being a waste of perfectly good carbon atoms.
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Agreed. However, until then...

roman said:
As it has already been noted, I like the certificates as it proves the previous owner(s) looked after what they had.
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I'm not sure how a guy can buy some bullion which may come with a certificate & maybe even a case, and then decide what the buyer he subsequently sells to will be needing. As he's ripping up the certificates, he thinks to himself, "he won't be needing these..."

And then you have the case of a guy who buys a gold koala with a COA and a lovely case. Just so happens, our guy has never been one for cases and COA, and as he trashes them, he thinks of his downstream buyer, and tells himself, "he won't be needing these... I see no need for this stuff myself, and nor should anyone else."
 
Bullion Baron said:
For something that takes up no storage room the certificates are worth holding onto in my opinion and I have held onto all of mine.

If we get to a point where 1 Kilo PAMP forgeries are hitting the market then the certificates might be a nice extra for the owner to help prove authenticity.
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And how easy is it to forge a certificate with a color laser printer ;)
 
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