Do you need Certificates when selling Silver 1kg PAMP bars?

Black_Sun said:
And then you have the case of a guy who buys a gold koala with a COA and a lovely case. Just so happens, our guy has never been one for cases and COA, and as he trashes them, he thinks of his downstream buyer, and tells himself, "he won't be needing these... I see no need for this stuff myself, and nor should anyone else."
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PAMP bars are *not* numismatics.

Funnily enough, the stuff that you do see floating around without capsules or cases though - like 2010 1oz Kangaroos out of their capsule, makes you wonder why. But seriously, it's a bullion bar, not a legal tender coin.

Accepting that bulk silver should be sold with a certificate is a backwards step. The effort to fake a certificate is minuscule compared to fabricating a fake bar. They add zero value.
 
If a bar comes with a cert, I keep it. If it doesn't, who cares.

But I won't pay 1c extra for a bar that has a cert.

+1 to everything GP has said above.
 
rbaggio said:
If a bar comes with a cert, I keep it. If it doesn't, who cares.

But I won't pay 1c extra for a bar that has a cert.

+1 to everything GP has said above.
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Very true certificates for bullion is laughable. BUT! Let us all step outside the circle and look at it on a different view.

"The pamp bars comes with certificates, if they didnt no one would care."

Retail front, this is what i see.

1. i put 2 pamp bars on the table one with certificate one without .. SAME PRICE, customer looks at the 2 bars and takes the one with the certificate.

2. customer comes in i put a pamp bar on the table without certificate. Customer asks for the certificate. wont buy without it, Or ask for a discount cause there is no certificate??? ITS BULLION and still wants a discount because no paper :/ .

only have this problem with pamp bars.

i see this more then often now days as more and more new people get into bullion they want to buy the pamps with the certificates.

Not always but i find it sometimes hard to sell the pamps without certificates.

James
 
goldpelican said:
Black_Sun said:
And then you have the case of a guy who buys a gold koala with a COA and a lovely case. Just so happens, our guy has never been one for cases and COA, and as he trashes them, he thinks of his downstream buyer, and tells himself, "he won't be needing these... I see no need for this stuff myself, and nor should anyone else."
Click to expand...

PAMP bars are *not* numismatics.

Funnily enough, the stuff that you do see floating around without capsules or cases though - like 2010 1oz Kangaroos out of their capsule, makes you wonder why. But seriously, it's a bullion bar, not a legal tender coin.

Accepting that bulk silver should be sold with a certificate is a backwards step. The effort to fake a certificate is minuscule compared to fabricating a fake bar. They add zero value.
Click to expand...

Agreed. However, I wonder how PAMP came to be regarded by many (not me) as being the "creme de la creme" of the bullion world; and this is how many dealers promote them; eg. ABC of Sydney refer to PAMP as "The "Rolls-Royce" of bullion". Did they possibly manage to leverage themselves into this position by promoting paper certificates? ie: brain-washing people that certificates make "all the difference".

What do you think? After all, PAMP have been successful to a large extent, ie: witness this SS forum posting, debating this very issue.

Be interested in your view point. Cheers.
 
Black_Sun said:
goldpelican said:
Black_Sun said:
And then you have the case of a guy who buys a gold koala with a COA and a lovely case. Just so happens, our guy has never been one for cases and COA, and as he trashes them, he thinks of his downstream buyer, and tells himself, "he won't be needing these... I see no need for this stuff myself, and nor should anyone else."
Click to expand...

PAMP bars are *not* numismatics.

Funnily enough, the stuff that you do see floating around without capsules or cases though - like 2010 1oz Kangaroos out of their capsule, makes you wonder why. But seriously, it's a bullion bar, not a legal tender coin.

Accepting that bulk silver should be sold with a certificate is a backwards step. The effort to fake a certificate is minuscule compared to fabricating a fake bar. They add zero value.
Click to expand...

Agreed. However, I wonder how PAMP came to be regarded by many (not me) as being the "creme de la creme" of the bullion world; and this is how many dealers promote them; eg. ABC of Sydney refer to PAMP as "The "Rolls-Royce" of bullion". Did they possibly manage to leverage themselves into this position by promoting paper certificates? ie: brain-washing people that certificates make "all the difference".

What do you think? After all, PAMP have been successful to a large extent, ie: witness this SS forum posting, debating this very issue.

Be interested in your view point. Cheers.
Click to expand...

MARKETING

MORE MARKETING
I got told by somebody who will remain nameless
That you can drop a Pamp 1kg bar at any dealer in any country
And that you can pick up your $ from another dealer in another country

BS ,no such thing
I've noticed it's MAINLY newbies who want cert with they're Pamps
I've even seen customers ask for Pamps ,and were told we only have PM today
They walked out :rolleyes:

ABC Sydney are just pumping the Marketing machine for a product that they sell :rolleyes:
 
spannermonkey said:
I've even seen customers ask for Pamps ,and were told we only have PM today
They walked out :rolleyes:
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How sad. PM is truly one of the best in the world. We're very fortunate. So true that people often disregard what is close (Aus mint), and regard the far off (Swiss/US/UK mint) as somehow being more authentic.
 
I guess you could ask yourself if offered a pamp or PM bar for same price which one would you take first
 
Black_Sun said:
spannermonkey said:
I've even seen customers ask for Pamps ,and were told we only have PM today
They walked out :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

How sad. PM is truly one of the best in the world. We're very fortunate. So true that people often disregard what is close (Aus mint), and regard the far off (Swiss/US/UK mint) as somehow being more authentic.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day
It's a 1KG bar

1kg bars DON'T fetch a premium
(except if they come from a refiner that doesn't exist any-more ,I saw the big bars that GP posted earlier today
YES they look nice
BUT I WOULD NEVER PAY A PREMIUM for any 1kg bar :D
 
hiho said:
I guess you could ask yourself if offered a pamp or PM bar for same price which one would you take first
Click to expand...

I wouldn't care what ever was closer to hand :P
But I don't touch 1kg bars :P
 
Potential conversational differences between Buyers & Sellers of Perth Mint bullion vs PAMP


Perth Mint:
Seller: Here's your 1 kg mate.
Buyer: Cheers, thanks buddy. See you round. [both walk away]


PAMP:
Seller: Here's your 1 kg mate, and the certificate.
Buyer: What the hell is this?
Seller: What are you talking about?
Buyer: The certificate. Look at it. What is this big brown stain on it?
Seller: Sorry, that's an old coffee stain.
Buyer: You're meant to take care of the certificates!
Seller: Don't worry about it. Its just a piece of paper; the metal is what counts.
Buyer: Oh no! No mate. This is money. You can't ruin a PAMP certificate like this, and expect the buyer to just accept it.
Buyer: Let me check that the numbers all match up...
blah blah blah...


PS: With these facts in mind, see if you can figure out what type of bullion is favoured by drama queens.
 
Bullion Baron said:
But agree with spannermonkey, I haven't bought a kilo bar since I struggled to sell some here in early 2011. From my observation kilo or bigger as well as predecimal become toxic (hard to sell) after a large rise in the price of Silver, so I now avoid both. 10oz bars are the largest I buy now.
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sorry, my comment was based on above quote.
 
I wish i was back in oz so i could upload a vid of me lighting my cigarette with a pamp cert :p: Seriously its a piece of paper. what did you buy a piece of metal or a peice of paper.
 
Bullion Baron said:
Would you burn the title for one of your houses? What did you buy a piece of paper or a property? :lol:
Click to expand...

A PAMP certificate is not a title - it's a poor comparison. What did you buy, a piece of paper or a bar? :lol:
 
Bullion Baron said:
goldpelican said:
PAMP bars are *not* numismatics.
They add zero value.
Click to expand...
I agree they are not numismatics. The certificates may add zero value to you (or to most buyers in todays market), but that doesn't mean that some punters wouldn't pay extra with the certificate in some circumstances.

In early 2011 kilo bars were selling for absolutely ridiculous prices (10% and more on top of dealer prices in some cases)... http://www.bullionbaron.com/2011/03/ebay-no-playground-for-cheap-silver.html

If we see an even larger mania take hold it's hard to know what will transpire. Is it plausible that some uninformed buyers end up paying premiums for a bar with a legitimate certificate over one with no certificate? Absolutely yes.

And furthermore it's something that has the potential to draw in a buyer:

**PAMP BAR 1 KILO FOR SALE**
**PAMP BAR 1 KILO FOR SALE WITH ORIGINAL COA PROVING AUTHENTICITY**

Which of the above auction headings is more likely to draw in a buyer? Keeping in mind that those buying in the mania are likely to be new to the market and not familiar with physical Silver...

I would highly recommned that PAMP owners hold onto their certificates even if you think it provides no extra value in todays market.
Click to expand...

Baaahh so complicated, don't buy PAMP silver if it makes you get headache.
However I don't know why I have some of 100grs PAMP lol
 
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