Coins vs Bars, more ounces vs less ounces

[Earthjade]

I'm fine for speculating on these premiums while things are still rosy and there are still mugs out there willing to pay more than you did
In fact, I think I'll get some of those dragons and offload them straight away for a quick profit.
However, when the PARABOLIC LAUNCH occurs, you're going to want to be HEAVY, not PRETTY.

 

[goldpelican]

I'm pretty sure that auspm is referring to 10x 1oz Dragons with the $800-$1000, not 1x 10oz Dragon.

 

[hiho]

I'm pretty sure that auspm is referring to 10x 1oz Dragons with the $800-$1000, not 1x 10oz Dragon.

one would hope so

 

[bennybbc]

I'm fine for speculating on these premiums while things are still rosy and there are still mugs out there willing to pay more than you did
In fact, I think I'll get some of those dragons and offload them straight away for a quick profit.
However, when the PARABOLIC LAUNCH occurs, you're going to want to be HEAVY, not PRETTY.

http://www.eu2008.fr/webdav/site/PFUE/shared/import/07/0707_fusee_ariane/0707_decollage_Ar.jpg

Or HEAVY, on PRETTY.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

The perennial debate. There's no one right answer, but I read a few posts I can't find now yesterday that put forward the ONLY BARS, no emotional attachment, will sell at the top of the market and be done with it argument.

Each person will have to decide for themselves what is right, but consider that in the case of confiscation, that bars are more at risk since they have no official collectible status (yes there are people who collect different bar types) but a set of coins, that are RAM or other will constitute a collectible to the owner and so may be spared such a fate.

There are always plusses and minusses in all these things. To see things through one lens is also a liability.

I'm not sure that confiscation should be considered. If such a draconian step were introduced i'd have to say that I would no longer want to live here

 

[SilverBaron]

From a dealers perspective, 10oz bars have been outselling 10oz coins on the Gold Stackers website by a factor of about 10 to 1 in the last few days, even though there's about $1.25/oz difference between a poured bar and a Dragon.

Is there any chance of a SC bar trade in for 10oz Dragons, I'll pay a $1.50 per oz difference. (300oz available)

 

[goldpelican]

That's a retail difference, not a buy/sell spread!

 

[SilverBaron]

That's a retail difference, not a buy/sell spread!

I'm happy to pay the difference, if its a possible deal.

I'm just trying to work out if its better to sell all and re-buy or just do a straight swap.

Trying to find a happy medium where we both benefit

 

[Jislizard]

A quick question which has probably been answered before but I haven't come across it.

As the perth Mint Kooks and the RAM roos are legal tender for a lously dollar, I can't think that the aim is to have them actually circulating as currency.

I also don't see $1 as any sort of acceptable stop loss for an $87 purchase.

The only reason I can think that there is any need to brand these as "Legal Tender" is for the benefit of the issuer, not the purchaser. E.g. in case the government decides to recall all legal tender. I know it sounds stupid but Governments all over the world are recalling coins because they are changing the size, removing denominations or changing the composition of the metals.

The government made a fortune when Australia went from Predecimal to decimal. They recalled all the silver coins and gave the public cupronickel and kept the difference.

They also make it very difficult to melt down legal tender, it may even be illegal to melt down a Kook, I have never been interested in trying and I doubt anyone in the government would care at this moment in time.

However if it is not different in Australia, and we do get a GFC:Australia spin-off show. Could the government call some emergency measures and demand the recall of all the legal tender, or demand that even though your bank has collapsed taking all your saving with it, and even though hyperinflation means the rates are now $1,000,000 a quarter, if you have legal tender of any kind it now belongs to the government so you can pay your taxes?

You don't get that with a bar! However I still don't have any bars, aiming to change that today though!

 

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure that auspm is referring to 10x 1oz Dragons with the $800-$1000, not 1x 10oz Dragon.

Correct.

The same principle applies to any 'numismatically' priced silver.

About as 'numismatic' as I like to get is the 1937 crown, which is really only a little over priced in the current market and even then I only have a handful for 'play' silver.

But the intent to buy 1oz 999 at anything above issue price trying to speculate on spectacular returns down the line I believe is short sighted and for the want of a better term 'screwing yourself' out of a better potential gain by going simply for more ounces than rolling the dice on future speculative collectable premiums.

Look at the rhetoric of the long term stackers and you'll see the underlying context of the ideal strategy.

I think the recent influx of new stackers (and the accompanying animated discussion in a bull market) has lead to some stacking choices that have slipped from the fundamentals and moved people's stacks into a potentially more risky direction (being more speculative based).

So my motto is simple on all this.

Stick to core ounces as your primary concern.
Ensure your stack consists of easily recognisable and verifiable bullion or coinage.
If you can get your coinage for a *small* premium, it's generally worth the slight opportunity cost to go for something with a government guarantee behind it.

I have everything in my stack from pre-decimal and 1966 50s through to 20oz Perth Mint bullion bars and even the odd Panda.

A little variety is always fun to have, but I would advise anyone of going overboard with it and to maintain a level head and keep your core stack based on the fundamentals you set out to achieve in the first place.

Lest we cease being stackers and simply collectable baseball card traders, trying to convince each other one silver is better than another and worth silly prices because it's got a pretty picture or comes from a 'limited run'.

I assure you that in the end, when you go to trade in that stack and it's destined for the melting pot, it won't make a damn bit of difference in the slightest.

That's just my personal advice on the issue, but anyone is free to make their stacking choices as they best see fit.

I'll be more than content sticking with the 'yukky' silver and gold the general investment community deems 'junk' and offers at a cheaper price.

 

[Silverthorn]

The banking act has provisional for confiscation of gold but not silver so they would probably have to enact some change to legislation to confiscate your silver coins.

 

[Lovey80]

My thoughts are the same as Auspm. My SMSF will be all bars and the private stack a combination.

 

[Jislizard]

The banking act has provisional for confiscation of gold but not silver so they would probably have to enact some change to legislation to confiscate your silver coins.

Thanks Silverthorn

Is that legal tender gold, or just any gold e.g. sovereigns, bars, necklaces, teeth, necklaces made from teeth etc. I would think there would be exceptions such as numismatics etc. I am guessing the banking act is pretty big and I am too lazy to go through the whole thing but I would be interested in any specific areas if anyone has a link...

 

[fishball]

The banking act has provisional for confiscation of gold but not silver so they would probably have to enact some change to legislation to confiscate your silver coins.

Thanks Silverthorn

Is that legal tender gold, or just any gold e.g. sovereigns, bars, necklaces, teeth, necklaces made from teeth etc. I would think there would be exceptions such as numismatics etc. I am guessing the banking act is pretty big and I am too lazy to go through the whole thing but I would be interested in any specific areas if anyone has a link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#Similar_laws_in_other_countries

Is that it?

 

[940palmtx]

I've got a mixture of both. That said stacking is not only wealth protection but a hobby too

I agree with the Monkey. I have seen ugly hand poured bars go for high premiums on eBay and priced high by retailers. In some people's eyes, me for one, bars are cool and they are as collectible to an individual as any coin. I have many bars and have maybe 2 that I have doubles of on purpose. Bars IMO have a cool factor and coins have a beauty factor. There's room for both in the world and my stack

 

[Jislizard]

The banking act has provisional for confiscation of gold but not silver so they would probably have to enact some change to legislation to confiscate your silver coins.

Thanks Silverthorn

Is that legal tender gold, or just any gold e.g. sovereigns, bars, necklaces, teeth, necklaces made from teeth etc. I would think there would be exceptions such as numismatics etc. I am guessing the banking act is pretty big and I am too lazy to go through the whole thing but I would be interested in any specific areas if anyone has a link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#Similar_laws_in_other_countries

Is that it?

I am not as lazy as I make out....

CURRENCY ACT 1965 - SECT 23
Coins may be called in
(1) The GovernorGeneral may, by Proclamation, call in any coins issued under this Act or the repealed Acts before a date specified in the Proclamation.

(2) A Proclamation under subsection (1) has effect from such date as is specified in the Proclamation for the purpose.

No idea what it means as I only skipped to the section that stood out the most but seems to say that it could happen and the mechanism is already in place.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

Stick to core ounces as your primary concern.

That's just my personal advice on the issue, but anyone is free to make their stacking choices as they best see fit.

mate - it's not just your view, it's that of Mike Maloney as well - steer clear of numismatics...
It makes much more sense from the maths side of things and that's good enough for me.

 

[SparkySilver]

I'm pretty sure that auspm is referring to 10x 1oz Dragons with the $800-$1000, not 1x 10oz Dragon.

Correct.

The same principle applies to any 'numismatically' priced silver.

About as 'numismatic' as I like to get is the 1937 crown, which is really only a little over priced in the current market and even then I only have a handful for 'play' silver.

But the intent to buy 1oz 999 at anything above issue price trying to speculate on spectacular returns down the line I believe is short sighted and for the want of a better term 'screwing yourself' out of a better potential gain by going simply for more ounces than rolling the dice on future speculative collectable premiums.

Look at the rhetoric of the long term stackers and you'll see the underlying context of the ideal strategy.

I think the recent influx of new stackers (and the accompanying animated discussion in a bull market) has lead to some stacking choices that have slipped from the fundamentals and moved people's stacks into a potentially more risky direction (being more speculative based).

So my motto is simple on all this.

Stick to core ounces as your primary concern.
Ensure your stack consists of easily recognisable and verifiable bullion or coinage.
If you can get your coinage for a *small* premium, it's generally worth the slight opportunity cost to go for something with a government guarantee behind it.

I have everything in my stack from pre-decimal and 1966 50s through to 20oz Perth Mint bullion bars and even the odd Panda.

A little variety is always fun to have, but I would advise anyone of going overboard with it and to maintain a level head and keep your core stack based on the fundamentals you set out to achieve in the first place.

Lest we cease being stackers and simply collectable baseball card traders, trying to convince each other one silver is better than another and worth silly prices because it's got a pretty picture or comes from a 'limited run'.

I assure you that in the end, when you go to trade in that stack and it's destined for the melting pot, it won't make a damn bit of difference in the slightest.

That's just my personal advice on the issue, but anyone is free to make their stacking choices as they best see fit.

I'll be more than content sticking with the 'yukky' silver and gold the general investment community deems 'junk' and offers at a cheaper price.

+1..
I was buying in the 80's when it hit $50... and we were opening graded coins to sell for scrap.

 

[Jislizard]

+1..
I was buying in the 80's when it hit $50... and we were opening graded coins to sell for scrap.

I heard that this happened on a massive scale in the USA. Dealers and coin shops were getting so many in they did not have a chance to search out the key dates or good quality or varieties, they all went in the melting pot.

However...

Remember things go in cycles. the remaining numismatics are now back in demand and they are a lot rarer now than they were before the melt down. This is pertaining to proper numismatics and rare coins, not the artifically rare modern offerings. Even so, after half of the 300,000 1oz dragons have been melted down and silver has gone parabolic and the prices have crashed there will still be people collecting coins, then your dragons will be worth even more.

Just remember to diversify, stack what you like because you may end up holding on to it for a long time.

 

[Ouch]

When the time comes to run, would you rather have a 1930 half-penny proof or 10000 ounces?

When you come face to face with the border guard at the checkpoint would you rather have a 1930 half-penny proof hidden in the folds of your underpants or a 100oz bulge in your pants?