Call the Top for BTC 2017?

leo25 said:
Why would you think the whole world would want bitcoin? That's like people saying if everyone buys gold the price would be x amount. But everyone will never want gold, so it's a silly point. And bitcoin is an even weaker point then gold. Saying everyone will want bitcoin is like saying everyone will only want Perth Mint gold and no other stamp bar.
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I dont think the whole world wants bitcoin, Im just stating that whoever in the world wants bitcoin is actually bidding for a maximum of 14 million bitcoins vs the theoretical max of 21 million. There is still more bitcoin to be mined but over 7 million bitcoins has already been destroyed never again to be recovered. So many people mined bitcoin when it was worth nothing and forgot completely about it and then lost it. There are hundreds of stories about people losing hundreds of bitcoins because they threw out hard drives, etc.
 
silverjerry said:
I dont think the whole world wants bitcoin, Im just stating that whoever in the world wants bitcoin is actually bidding for a maximum of 14 million bitcoins vs the theoretical max of 21 million. There is still more bitcoin to be mined but over 7 million bitcoins has already been destroyed never again to be recovered.
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Ok, sorry I miss understood.
 
Bitcoin is the brand name for cryptos, that's why the masses flock to it, a lot better tech has come since then, but they are not as notable yet

And my prediction is 1 bitcoin will be worth $15000, the futures market will be out to manipulate like everything else they have a hand in
 
silverjerry said:
If a $20 transaction fee is too much you shouldnt be investing in bitcoin
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When I first heard about bitcoin, you could send transactions with no fee, or with a fraction of a cent fee if you really wanted to make sure of confirmation. The idea of being able to send tiny amounts of value like 20 cents, half way around the world for less than a cent was mind-blowing to me and gave it a real use value to me. One could reward people for an insightful comment on a forum with a small tip. People would have bitcoin addresses in their footers for such tips.

You can't do that with bitcoin any more and that is a real shame.

I want to see vending machines accept bitcoin. You can't do that if it is going to cost $20 for a transaction. When transactions were a fraction of a cent, that was a real use case for bitcoin in comparison to credit card processing fees of up to 10 % on small, sub-$5 transactions.

Bitcoin is a victim of its own success, but if you can no longer transact with it, it will lose value to other coins with negligible fees that can scale to handle Visa and Mastercard throughputs. Think Bitshares, Steem and hopefully EOS. IOTA has potential here too.
 
Brendio said:
When I first heard about bitcoin, you could send transactions with no fee, or with a fraction of a cent fee if you really wanted to make sure of confirmation. The idea of being able to send tiny amounts of value like 20 cents, half way around the world for less than a cent was mind-blowing to me and gave it a real use value to me. One could reward people for an insightful comment on a forum with a small tip. People would have bitcoin addresses in their footers for such tips.

You can't do that with bitcoin any more and that is a real shame.

I want to see vending machines accept bitcoin. You can't do that if it is going to cost $20 for a transaction. When transactions were a fraction of a cent, that was a real use case for bitcoin in comparison to credit card processing fees of up to 10 % on small, sub-$5 transactions.
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You should used Bitcoin Cash, it's like using Bitcoin in the good old days (1 year ago) :) My last Bitcoin Cash transaction cost me about 2 cents in fees.
 
leo25 said:
You should used Bitcoin Cash, it's like using Bitcoin in the good old days (1 year ago) :) My last Bitcoin Cash transaction cost me about 2 cents in fees.
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Until everyone switches over to bitcoin cash and fees go up again. BCH has 8 times the capacity of BTC, but what is needed is more like 1000 times capacity.

Or we accept the fact that BTC is now a reserve currency and store of value, rather than for monetary use.
 
Here is an interesting comparison of blockchains, including how much activity they are experiencing and how close to capacity they are, and their activity to market cap ratio: http://blocktivity.info/

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BTC and ETH are both over 100 % utilised. STEEM has the highest activity of any blockchain and is running at inly 0.3% of capacity. Bitshares is number 3 and at 0.18% capacity.

BCH has lots of spare capacity at the moment, but not much activity to back up its valuation.

Disclaimer: It is a very crude valuation metric, given not all activity represents the same economic value, but I thought it presents an interesting snapshot.
 
Brendio said:
When I first heard about bitcoin, you could send transactions with no fee, or with a fraction of a cent fee if you really wanted to make sure of confirmation. The idea of being able to send tiny amounts of value like 20 cents, half way around the world for less than a cent was mind-blowing to me and gave it a real use value to me. One could reward people for an insightful comment on a forum with a small tip. People would have bitcoin addresses in their footers for such tips.

You can't do that with bitcoin any more and that is a real shame.

I want to see vending machines accept bitcoin. You can't do that if it is going to cost $20 for a transaction. When transactions were a fraction of a cent, that was a real use case for bitcoin in comparison to credit card processing fees of up to 10 % on small, sub-$5 transactions.

Bitcoin is a victim of its own success, but if you can no longer transact with it, it will lose value to other coins with negligible fees that can scale to handle Visa and Mastercard throughputs. Think Bitshares, Steem and hopefully EOS. IOTA has potential here too.
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Yes you are exactly right. I believe some altcoins have developed alternatives to the fee structure but who knows if any of them will be popular. For me personally it seems way more people are only interested in bitcoin in the hopes of getting rich. Then there is a small minority of people that want a cheap and quick way to send funds around the world which to me, like you, seems the best thing about these technologies. Removing control of the financial sector from the governments and putting it into the hands of the people seems like a great goal to me.

But I am also happy that a lot of people that wouldn't have been rich otherwise have made a lot of money with things like bitcoin. Its great that "the small guy" got a great advantage in bitcoin before the old rich people realized this thing was worth investing in. Those types of opportunities are quite rare.
 
Brendio said:
Until everyone switches over to bitcoin cash and fees go up again. BCH has 8 times the capacity of BTC, but what is needed is more like 1000 times capacity.

Or we accept the fact that BTC is now a reserve currency and store of value, rather than for monetary use.
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The reality is there is no blockchain crypto that can work at large scale volumes and still remain decentralised and i haven't heard one person give a real solution so far (Lightning is not a real solution). The reason Bitcoin Core limited to 1MB is because they know there is no solution and wanted to limit the blockchain growth rate. They then decided to make Bitcoin a settlement/savings chain, it's easy to achieve by having high fees so people stop using it for small transactions.

So anyone can come out and say we are going to support massive block sizes, but then it's going to be very hard to keep it decentralised. Now if it's centralised then there is no issue at all.

Btw that Blockchain Activity link you provided should not be used to make any judgement on how good a crypto functions and scales.
 
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leo25 said:
The reality is there is no blockchain crypto that can work at large scale volumes and still remain decentralised and i haven't heard one person give a real solution so far (Lightning is not a real solution). The reason Bitcoin Core limited to 1MB is because they no there is no solution and wanted to limit the blockchain growth rate. They then decided to make Bitcoin a settlement/savings chain, it's easy to achieve by having high fees so people stop using it for small transactions.

So anyone can come out and say we are going to support massive block sizes, but then it's going to be very hard to keep it decentralised. Now if it's centralised then there is no issue at all.

Btw that Blockchain Activity link you provided should not be used to make any judgement on how good a crypto functions and scales.
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bitshares https://steemit.com/bitshares/@ash/bitshares-new-transaction-record-1m
 
dozerz said:
bitshares https://steemit.com/bitshares/@ash/bitshares-new-transaction-record-1m
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So i guess you didn't understand what i said. Yes anyone crypto can handle a lot of volume but it just means the blockchain will grow at a very fast rate. A rate that will make it very hard to remain decentralised.

Steem has only been popular for a short amount of time so the blockchain size is not an issue yet. But in only a few years it will be an issue. Also can someone provide me a link showing the current blockchain size of Steem? Because i can't seem to find it anywhere.

But here are some rough calculations. Atm block size limit is 65KB and per hour there are about 1200 blocks (78MB per hour). That's about 680GB per year and that assumes growth stops.

Also another big factor is people are assuming data storage will keep rapidly growing like we saw over the last 20 years. Atm a wall has been hit and HDD's are struggling to get bigger with out just stupidly adding more platters which make the HDD fail much faster. And SSD's in the TB are way too costly for most. Also if running that much data you will need to run a setup with error checking and redundancy. So now you are removing the vast majority of people from participating as a node.
 
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dozerz said:
not steem, bitshares. https://bitshares.org/technology/industrial-performance-and-scalability/
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They can make any claim they want, but atm they are only producing a measly 11.8 transactions per second. Come back and make your claim once it's proven and is even doing 10,000 per second.

Also I'm just as skeptical about BitUSD as i am with Tether. BitUSD is worse as BitUSD is backed by Bitshares, what a scam. At least Tether pretend to have dollars in a bank somewhere.
 
I think the error most people are making is they are looking for a silver bullet. I don't see an issue with cryptos growing organically and even dying organically and having a market with thousands of cryptos all with various different uses competing with each other.

People who are extrapolating the population of the world all using Bitcoin are living in la-la-land. But also those who insist that any one crypto needs to scale to be able to handle every transaction on earth....it's over-simplifying things.

Who says we need a reserve currency? A single global currency? Blockchain tech is all about decentralisation.....so why does everyone want to centralise all transactions into one blockchain? No, lets spread it all around and be spoilt for choice. All we need is a slick "Shapeshift" kind of function and the coin (and blockchain) you keep your wealth in and transact with becomes almost irrelevant as the exchange function between coins can be near seamless and inexpensive to convert from one to the other at point-of-sale.
 
I believe there is talk of development of side chains to be able to do "shapeshifting" on-chain with no counterparty risk. I think the developer of litecoin was talking about this. This would then allow multiple currencies to compete organically and smooth out transactions. From a merchant perspective, they don't want to have to code for acceptance of 100 different cryptos, but if they can accept bitUSD and there are fast mechanisms in place for customers to pay with and shapeshift their preferred currency, then each crypto can find its niche, whether that be price stability, low fees, or strong miner backing.
 
If you want to be pedantic the thread should actually have been locked.

Predictions were being made back in August. You don't get any street cred for coming in during December and calling the high for 2017 this late in the game.
 
ok id be pissed too if i sold all my crypto :)

any thoughts on today's futures release and the impact to end of year prices?
 
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