BITCON... WHY its totally FLAWED

[pro$pector]

Is it not also correct that CPU mining almost reaps no rewards now, it needs to be GPU based mining?

Would make it hard to mine via a botnet etc (unless filled with gamers PC's), since most PC's aren't rigged with high end GPU's.

Google / JPM etc woulnd't waste their time trying, lets not forgot the entire BTC market is still only $650 million, thats a joke of a sum to somewhere like JPM.

 

[1for1]

Is it not also correct that CPU mining almost reaps no rewards now, it needs to be GPU based mining?

Would make it hard to mine via a botnet etc (unless filled with gamers PC's), since most PC's aren't rigged with high end GPU's.

Google / JPM etc woulnd't waste their time trying, lets not forgot the entire BTC market is still only $650 million, thats a joke of a sum to somewhere like JPM.

Correct.. CPUs are a like 1.1 mh/s

In other words.. Not worth turning the comp on.. But who knows its like 70 ATM... At 1000 it's worth it

1for1

 

[pro$pector]

Correct.. CPUs are a like 1.1 mh/s

In other words.. Not worth turning the comp on.. But who knows its like 70 ATM... At 1000 it's worth it

1for1

Good point, I've got a decent rig with dual high end GPU's (which is running 24/7 most of the time downloading torrents), but I haven't ever looked into mining - figured it wasn't worth the effort these days.

Maybe I should...maaaaybe I should.

 

[Dynoman]

Is it not also correct that CPU mining almost reaps no rewards now, it needs to be GPU based mining?

Would make it hard to mine via a botnet etc (unless filled with gamers PC's), since most PC's aren't rigged with high end GPU's.

Google / JPM etc woulnd't waste their time trying, lets not forgot the entire BTC market is still only $650 million, thats a joke of a sum to somewhere like JPM.

Correct.. CPUs are a like 1.1 mh/s

In other words.. Not worth turning the comp on.. But who knows its like 70 ATM... At 1000 it's worth it

1for1

So I understand that your computer is solving a complex algorithims & then you're rewarded with these liquid units called Bitcoins. Yeap I get that, but who are you working for?

 

[pro$pector]

Yeap I get that, but who are you working for?

The Bitcoin network itself - no one in particular really.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining

 

[Dynoman]

Yeap I get that, but who are you working for?

The Bitcoin network itself - no one in particular really.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining

Then some part of my tiny brain fails compute why you would expend so much energy & effort creating something with intangible value? Why didn't they just set up shop & say "this is Bitcoin, its an electronic trading unit that you can purchase for a dollar & trade it fee free for whatever you need to purchase on the Internet" Is there something I'm missing here? Oh yeah, the profit of a few at the sacrifice of many.

Just like the Big Banks ha?

 

[pro$pector]

Oh yeah, the profit of a few at the sacrifice of many.

Your missing the point entirely - the power is used to process the transactions on the Bitcoin network.

I think you'll also find that almost everyone who has ever bought a BTC and held it, or mined them - will be in profit right now.

Bitcoins started at around $0.008 US in early 2010, and have since risen to $65 with not many price falls in between, apart from the major correction from $30.

At this point in time (at current price), its a case of nearly everyone who has ever mined or invested being in profit.

Do some maths, $100 initially invested would be worth over $800,000 today!

I'm not sure who these "many" that have sacrified would be.

 

[Slam]

I tried giving this a go the other day. Started mining for 1 hour. Realised my GPU was doing 250M/hashes per second. The GPU fan was whirling away really quickly, none of the games I have played has forced the fan to come on at max speed. I realised this isn't worth getting into, the cost of electricity keeps going up. In addition your competing with a lot of high end rigs. Not to mention ASIC machines coming online soon for this soul purpose.

I would say if you got in early and made a heep of coins back then keep them. Go for it and cash out at a right point. Its not worth getting into now.

What amazes me is the price keeps going up quickly, I would say its some sort of bubble happening. At the end of the day theres still only limited things you can buy with bitcoins. If it ever becomes mainstream then its a different story.

Those mining are really validating the block chain continuously, what do you think will happen when you reach that 21million coins? do people still throw power at the system validating it, with a zero return?

What is interesting is that, its soaked up 300-400million dollars of real fiat. I wonder how much more will go into it. Talk about coming up with nothing that is suddenly worth something. None the less I'm not saying bitcoins are bad, if I knew about it earlier with a real chance of mining some coins. I would have gotten into it. Right now I can't justify the effort and electricity costs.

One other thing is that it took me 10 hours to download the whole block chain currently, from what I see this keeps growing and growing. I can't imagine how big the block chain will be in 10 years time.

Slam

 

[1for1]

Hi, what costs are involved in producing.. i dont see any legitimate reason why they would be capped at that quantity stated, as they are a law unto themselves with no government backing id assume as profit maximisers.. they will just keep the free money rolling..

These guys remind me of diamond traders.. drip feed the supply and claim scarity.

I have read about all i can.. to me this is worse than a ponzi as no-one benefits except those that PRODUCE the coin (albeit with ZERO overheads)!

You clearly have not read all about it. There are no "these guys" who issue bitcoins (it is a peer to peer system), there are legitimate hard cash costs to the transaction validation process (which "produces" bitcoins) and the maximum limit of bitcoins that can ever be produced is hard coded into the mathematics.

I don't have any problem with those aspects and think it is a very smart design. The issues I have are:

1. all transactions are visible, so you have to use randomising services to mix up bitcoin addresses
2. you have extra risks trying to secure your bitcoin "files" from loss
3. because the costs of validation are high it seems this is becoming limited to "miners" who have the big dollars to set up the hardware, which means over time you may well end up with a limited number of these validators, who then effectively "own" the system and if enough of them with a majority of processing power agree with each other, they can change the rules (and thus I assume the max number of bitcoins).
4. Is electronic, relying on the internet and electricity, without either you can't spend bitcoins.

The first two points I see as a turnoff for average people. There is a tradeoff between ease of use and security/robustness. Unfortunately average person wants ease of use.

Looking back it was this post that actually allowed me grasp the concept to a point where i could try it and see for myself . ... "There are no THESE GUYS who issue bitcoins"... Once i worked out its "a free to mine bitcoin with no centralisation system" which imo shows the intention of the designer to craft a beautiful fair currency, but man I was dense.. How come it took Bron to step in and break it down multiple posts later.. seems like its hard to break down?

Great summary by Bron.

1for1

 

[1for1]

I tried giving this a go the other day. Started mining for 1 hour. Realised my GPU was doing 250M/hashes per second. The GPU fan was whirling away really quickly, none of the games I have played has forced the fan to come on at max speed. I realised this isn't worth getting into, the cost of electricity keeps going up. In addition your competing with a lot of high end rigs. Not to mention ASIC machines coming online soon for this soul purpose.

I would say if you got in early and made a heep of coins back then keep them. Go for it and cash out at a right point. Its not worth getting into now.

What amazes me is the price keeps going up quickly, I would say its some sort of bubble happening. At the end of the day theres still only limited things you can buy with bitcoins. If it ever becomes mainstream then its a different story.

Those mining are really validating the block chain continuously, what do you think will happen when you reach that 21million coins? do people still throw power at the system validating it, with a zero return?

What is interesting is that, its soaked up 300-400million dollars of real fiat. I wonder how much more will go into it. Talk about coming up with nothing that is suddenly worth something. None the less I'm not saying bitcoins are bad, if I knew about it earlier with a real chance of mining some coins. I would have gotten into it. Right now I can't justify the effort and electricity costs.

One other thing is that it took me 10 hours to download the whole block chain currently, from what I see this keeps growing and growing. I can't imagine how big the block chain will be in 10 years time.

Slam

Good summary.. id only add bitcoin will always be a currency as it transacts very well privately and instantly without the need for a 3rd party worldwide... its not about speculating on the price and getting profits.. once it settles .. perhaps at the end of its issue lifetime (4-5yrs away?).. it will be like paypal.. and the only funds in the world will be what people have.. and at that stage they could be $1000 each if thats the amount of companies and socities that have taken it up.. so to me bitcoin is what we make it.. if every company and person adopts it then it could be the new one world currency.. and every bitcoin would be worth 100000 million AUD.. maybe we are witnessing the birth of a secular one world digital currency..

1for1

 

[pro$pector]

Its not worth getting into now.

Not so sure about that, I bought some at $48 AUD last week, and got to spend them for the value of about $62 AUD today.

I'm pretty sure silver will never make me 30% in a week...:lol:

While I don't doubt the current price rise is start to look like somewhat of a bubble...bubbles have been known to run further and go on for longer than anyone could guess - you just have to sell to the greater fool before it pops.

 

[radiobirdman]

Tiptoe thru the bitcons

 

[Slam]

Its not worth getting into now.

Not so sure about that, I bought some at $48 AUD last week, and got to spend them for the value of about $62 AUD today.

I'm pretty sure silver will never make me 30% in a week...:lol:

While I don't doubt the current price rise is start to look like somewhat of a bubble...bubbles have been known to run further and go on for longer than anyone could guess - you just have to sell to the greater fool before it pops.

Is it worth getting into at 250M hash/s ?

What am I realistically expecting when I'm mining with the AU pool with default options?

Maybe I'll keep it on and see how it goes.

Slam

 

[Noppy]

Its not worth getting into now.

Not so sure about that, I bought some at $48 AUD last week, and got to spend them for the value of about $62 AUD today.

I'm pretty sure silver will never make me 30% in a week...:lol:

While I don't doubt the current price rise is start to look like somewhat of a bubble...bubbles have been known to run further and go on for longer than anyone could guess - you just have to sell to the greater fool before it pops.

Is it worth getting into at 250M hash/s ?

What am I realistically expecting when I'm mining with the AU pool with default options?

Maybe I'll keep it on and see how it goes.

Slam

I have got 0.13 each of the last couple of days with 4 times the hash rate and about an hours down time a day.

 

[pro$pector]

Is it worth getting into at 250M hash/s ?

What am I realistically expecting when I'm mining with the AU pool with default options?

Maybe I'll keep it on and see how it goes.

Slam

No...probably not - although I have never mined myself (not through lack of ability/knowledge - just lazyness), I just trade and spend BTC so benefit from the exchange rate rises.

Have spent the last few hours reading up on these ASIC miner's, and when they hit the mining circuit very soon I think the BTC price could take a dive as owners mine and cash out over and over.

Other concerning thing is some crafty individual buying up, say 30x of the $30k units and being able to launch the dreaded 51% double spend...

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending#.3E50.25_attack

Someone should start a CFD type trading system for BTC so they can be shorted - what a dream that would be being able to bet either way - I haven't found anyone actually offering a decent BTC lending system for shorting yet unfortunately.

 

[Dynoman]

The Bitcoin system seems technically simple to replicate. It was originally invented by a few savy hackers for gameplay. So what if Max Keiser holds the patents. The Russians own Max Keiser, they will just take it from him.

 

[Slam]

Not so sure about that, I bought some at $48 AUD last week, and got to spend them for the value of about $62 AUD today.

I'm pretty sure silver will never make me 30% in a week...:lol:

While I don't doubt the current price rise is start to look like somewhat of a bubble...bubbles have been known to run further and go on for longer than anyone could guess - you just have to sell to the greater fool before it pops.

Is it worth getting into at 250M hash/s ?

What am I realistically expecting when I'm mining with the AU pool with default options?

Maybe I'll keep it on and see how it goes.

Slam

I have got 0.13 each of the last couple of days with 4 times the hash rate and about an hours down time a day.

Wow, thats like $6 bucks a day at the current bitcoin rates. Do you know how much it costs to run the rig, I'm assuming your running dual cross-fire cards since I only have a single 7970 to get 4x the hash rates.

Seems its still profitable for your setup.

I have a problem with my rig, when the GPU hits 80degrees it cuts out and slows down. I have the GPU fan running at 85%. I guess no mining for me :lol:

I have turned it off now. Will be interesting to see when the ASIC rigs come online though.

Good luck to those still mining.

 

[Gold Kiwi]

Best comment I've read on Bitcoin: What happens when the power goes out?

 

[pro$pector]

Best comment I've read on Bitcoin: What happens when the power goes out?

...or even just the internet???

Mind you, most people I know don't own any gold or silver, or keep any cash.

They would be in as much hot water as the BTC holders in either scenario with no functioning ATM's or Eftpos.

 

[Noppy]

Wow, thats like $6 bucks a day at the current bitcoin rates. Do you know how much it costs to run the rig, I'm assuming your running dual cross-fire cards since I only have a single 7970 to get 4x the hash rates.

Seems its still profitable for your setup.

I have a problem with my rig, when the GPU hits 80degrees it cuts out and slows down. I have the GPU fan running at 85%. I guess no mining for me :lol:

I have turned it off now. Will be interesting to see when the ASIC rigs come online though.

Good luck to those still mining.

I got 2 7970's in a water cooling loop with my CPU. I have the computer for gaming as I run 2 2560x1440 monitors, I got into the mining a couple of weeks after I bought my 7970's and was using it a stress test for my overclock. I have always mined enough coins to pay my units power bill. Really nice considering how bills are going. The water loop is the saviour it keeps the noise down to less than my office computer and the temperature never goes over 40c all summer. Come winter I have a free heater too (if the price holds). I wouldn't recommend running on your air cooled 7970 as the fan will just go balistic and you may even degrade your GPU with the high heat.


Clocks at about 1030 to get the 500 each by the way.