ATO & eBay selling bullion, paying tax

[silversearcher]

This has come up on the forum before - previously the ATO has done eBay / tax return data matching on a $20,000 threshold. I may have skipped a year.

Yes it was $20k.
Just google "ebay $20k threshold" plenty of references.
In fact it used to be $50k before that it seems.
http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53101

From Miniroo's point of view it doesn't matter it's $20 k, $50K or $100K the fact it is $10K NOW ! Whether or not it's a PROTOCOL or LEGISLATE the ATO can use any damn word they want. Just like Municipal Council they use the word RATES instead of word TAX to avoid being in to in breach of The Constitution. The ATO have kept this open to change the threshold according to increments. Try telling ATO, OH well I simply don't have to abide to your rules because your protocol is not legislated. Seriously !

Cheers.....

 

[SpacePete]

This has come up on the forum before - previously the ATO has done eBay / tax return data matching on a $20,000 threshold. I may have skipped a year.

Yes it was $20k.
Just google "ebay $20k threshold" plenty of references.
In fact it used to be $50k before that it seems.
http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53101

From Miniroo's point of view it doesn't matter it's $20 k, $50K or $100K the fact it is $10K NOW ! Whether or not it's a PROTOCOL or LEGISLATE the ATO can use any damn word they want. Just like Municipal Council they use the word RATES instead of word TAX to avoid being in to in breach of The Constitution. The ATO have kept this open to change the threshold according to increments. Try telling ATO, OH well I simply don't have to abide to your rules because your protocol is not legislated. Seriously !

Cheers.....

Are these changes applied retrospectively? Do the reduced thresholds apply to previous years?

 

[tozak]

I sold a Car and a Boat on eBay a couple years ago, I think it was the only two items I sold for the year and got one of those emails from eBay. I don't think it's an issue, I assume the ATO are really just looking for people who seem to be carrying on a large side business and not declaring anything.

If your really worried about it then just open up a few more eBay accounts and keep them all under 10k per year.

 

[SpacePete]

...

Here is the link from the ATO about " Online selling data matching program protocol "

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Data-matching-program-protocol/

Something interesting I noticed when digging around after I followed that link you provided.

There are two pages related to data collection for online selling:

* Online selling data matching program protocol - 2013-14 financial year
* Online selling data matching program protocol - 2014-15 financial year

The 2013-2014 document, under section 13, Alternative methods, has a note on a "Payment Systems data matching program":

One alternative source considered is through the payment data collected through the Specialised Payment Systems data matching program. This data has been collected for the first time in relation to the 2013/14 financial year. The limitation of this data is that it does not capture payments made by direct bank transfer, cheques, money orders or cash on delivery, whereas online selling data provides details of all transactions, regardless of payment method

The 2015 document has dropped this note in the section on alternative methods (maybe the capture program has overcome the limitations mentioned above). It does say that:

* The ATO only receives data from taxpayers that are correctly registered and meeting their lodgment obligations

* The ATO has no other data to cross-reference to ensure taxpayers are reporting their obligations correctly other than by directly contacting every taxpayer

...This data matching program will allow the ATO to identify taxpayers who are not fully complying with their obligations, as well as those that may be operating outside the taxation system. It will also reduce the likelihood of the ATO unnecessarily contacting taxpayers who appear to be complying with their taxation obligations.

Read this bit again: "The ATO has no other data to cross-reference to ensure taxpayers are reporting their obligations correctly".

HOWEVER, we know that is not the case. The ATO has many data feeds used to cross-reference, and many are listed on the ATO website.

For example:

Current data matching protocols

* Banking Transparency Strategy
* Contractor Payments
* Credit & Debit Cards - 2014-15 financial year
* Credit & Debit Cards - 2012-13 and 2013-14 financial years
* Foreign Investment Review Board
* Department of Immigration & Border Protection Visa Holders
* Motor Vehicle Registries
* Music Industry Royalty Payments
* Online Selling - 2013-14 financial year
* Online Selling - 2014-15 financial year
* Ride Sourcing
* Share Transactions
* Specialised payment systems
* Taxable Government Grants & Payments

The specialized payment systems is separate from the usual credit and debit card tracking. I wonder if it will eventually include things like Bitcoin? The associated document currently lists:

For the first year of collection, data will be sought from:

Ausfit Pty Ltd
Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited (BPAY data)
Bill Buddy Pty Ltd
Commonwealth Bank of Australia (BPAY data)
Debitsuccess Pty Ltd
eDebit Pty Ltd
Ezidebit Pty Ltd
Ezypay Pty Ltd
FFA Paysmart Pty Ltd
Integrapay Pty Ltd
IP Payments Pty Ltd
National Australia Bank Limited (BPAY data)
Flexi Online Pty Ltd (T/A Paymate)
PayPal Australia Pty Ltd
POLi Payments Pty Ltd
Quickpay Pty Ltd
St George Bank (BPAY data)
Westpac Banking Corporation (BPAY data)

 

[SpacePete]

...

If your really worried about it then just open up a few more eBay accounts and keep them all under 10k per year.

Notice that IP address is one of the fields supplied to the ATO, along with your name, address, phone, email and various other bits of data.

Unless you can make all of these identifying details unique for each account then multiple accounts will be grouped together easily enough.

 

[silversearcher]

...

If your really worried about it then just open up a few more eBay accounts and keep them all under 10k per year.

Notice that IP address is one of the fields supplied to the ATO, along with your name, address, phone, email and various other bits of data.

Unless you can make all of these identifying details unique for each account then multiple accounts will be grouped together easily enough.

Spot on. All accounts need to be separated by unique a Ebay / Paypal Account with separate bank accounts / credit cards linked as alternative payment sources. A husband wife scenario is perfectly legitimate and a legal way to separate accounts, as each person can be individually taxed. Also get a ABN ( which are more difficult to get ) set up a partnership and setup a online business using Ebay as the hub. That way the tax load can be spread out. Tozak, what you have said is incorrect. If the ATO are watching such threads they will have a absolute field day reading such comments.

Cheers....

 

[miniroo]

yeah ebay are sending the ATO the details, I don't have to do anything.

it don't really matter as i'm a low income earner as it is, so I thought to hell with it, I have no receipts of postage and can't be bothered so I just put in the whole amount, I basically lived off ebay sales and scrapping steel and stuff so didn't have to pay much tax anyway.

funnily enough I could of bludged on the dole and earnt nearly as much as I did.
just goes to show though, trying to earn an honest dollar isn't really worth it if your low income, the scrappers i'm competing against get their $520 a fortnight, I bust a gut for just a bit more.

My back is stuffed now so I might just go on the dole myself, let you guys that pay a lot of tax support me instead

 

[SpacePete]

yeah ebay are sending the ATO the details, I don't have to do anything.

it don't really matter as i'm a low income earner as it is, so I thought to hell with it, I have no receipts of postage and can't be bothered so I just put in the whole amount, I basically lived off ebay sales and scrapping steel and stuff so didn't have to pay much tax anyway.

funnily enough I could of bludged on the dole and earnt nearly as much as I did.
just goes to show though, trying to earn an honest dollar isn't really worth it if your low income, the scrappers i'm competing against get their $520 a fortnight, I bust a gut for just a bit more.

My back is stuffed now so I might just go on the dole myself, let you guys that pay a lot of tax support me instead

Yep, (in general) these laws and regulations and data tracking are all brought in with the justification of tracking criminal proceeds and big tax cheats, and to protect businesses against unfair competition, but the vast majority of people impacted are those struggling to make a living and who have a small hobby buying and selling stuff rather bludging on taxpayer benefits. $10k is not much at all these days given how expensive everything is. Maybe they'll lower it even further next time around.

And STILL they refuse to track the huge amounts of illegal cash pumped into real estate from criminals and offshore sources (real estate is exempt for AUSTRAC cash reporting requirements).

And let's not get started on offshoring of profits.

 

[tozak]

...

If your really worried about it then just open up a few more eBay accounts and keep them all under 10k per year.

Notice that IP address is one of the fields supplied to the ATO, along with your name, address, phone, email and various other bits of data.

Unless you can make all of these identifying details unique for each account then multiple accounts will be grouped together easily enough.

Spot on. All accounts need to be separated by unique a Ebay / Paypal Account with separate bank accounts / credit cards linked as alternative payment sources. A husband wife scenario is perfectly legitimate and a legal way to separate accounts, as each person can be individually taxed. Also get a ABN ( which are more difficult to get ) set up a partnership and setup a online business using Ebay as the hub. That way the tax load can be spread out. Tozak, what you have said is incorrect. If the ATO are watching such threads they will have a absolute field day reading such comments.

Cheers....

What are you talking about?, only single accounts over 10K are sent to the ATO so (IP Address, Account Name, Account Address etc. etc.) are only relevant when the automated system picks up on a single account activity over 10K. The ATO cannot compare details of single accounts under 10K if the automated system does not provide them with the raw data.

 

[projack]

The real issue is effecting you is not your eBay turnover everyone is focusing here, but the profits you make on those items bought exclusively for eBay for resell.
For example you bought 10 items on the flee market for $100 and sold them on Ebay with 100% profit so you received $180.
If you follow the correct rules you must ask officially acceptable receipts with names and addresses from the 10 individual flee market sellers, you can prove the ATO the real purchase price. If you live 20kms from the market you can clam around $40 for travel expenses. If you are going 3-4 times for the post office also cost you about the same in travel expenses alone. So you acutely earned nothing, but if you add up everything you are with loss. Also you might travel a lot not find anything worth to buy
The bottom line is you have to use all your legal options to reduce your tax just like any business. Unfortunately EBay selling in most cases very low income business, and most people can not even afford to pay an accountant to make sure he/she is not paying any tax unnecessary.
It is very sad to see Australia became like a petty thief who hunts for pennies.
What a great place it was to live here in the 80s. The best times of my life.

 

[SpacePete]

Australian Taxation Office to check records of online buyers and sellers in hunt for tax cheats

THE taxman is launching a hunt for online tax cheats.

EBay and other online market operators will be asked to hand over the records of thousands of Australian sellers to the Australian Taxation Office to check all appropriate taxes are being paid.

Up to 40,000 account records linked to between 15,000 and 20,000 individuals and companies who sold goods or services totalling $10,000 or more in the year to June 30, 2014, will be subject to the latest online audit.

The ATO hopes matching the sales data with its own records will identify those selling goods and services online without paying taxes.

Those with undeclared income or incorrect payment and reporting for GST will be a key focus.

"The ATO will match the data provided by online selling sites against ATO records to identify businesses that may not be meeting their registration, reporting, lodgement and/or payment obligations," the ATO said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/au...313883737?sv=c6cb3c4853f1de057cd901441af05e02