2013 Britannia's

Photonaware said:
Where do I start ?

1. Those of us who purchased the early release of silver 2013 Britannias expected a superb product.
Previous bullion coins were stunning and your gold coins, proof coins and other coins were consistently of a very high quality.
The promotional literature for your bullion coins used words like stunning, beautiful etc.
If we were purchasing silver rounds or seconds then we should not have paid the usual high premiums on Britannias compared to say Philharmonicas which remain one of the cheapest coins yet are in very good condition always.

2. All coins can become collectors coins whether bullion or not.
Perth Mint coins for example are shipped in capsules for protection yet are bullion coins costing no more than your bullion coins.
How many people on this forum would have accepted the coin condition you issued if it applied to their Kookaburras, Snakes & Dragons to then be told they are not intended as collectors coins but merely for their scrap value ?

3. You were not novices in producing fine silver coins and the English Rose didn't show all the process damage of the new Britannias so somewhere on the production line there was a defect. What is worse, the coins were shipped with a QC number / sticker so I assume the only check you made was weight with no inspection whatsover ?

4. I cannot comment on the tube size only hearing that you were unable apparently to supply coins in tubes or there were problems with tubes.
The tubes I received my coins in contained 20 and not 25 and had a Royal Mint tape seal on the grey lid.

5. The early coins I refer to were supplied in sheets of square sections that easily separated.
Each coin was effectively encapsulated individually.
Across the sheet was printed Royal Mint and there were QC stickers on each sheet.
Are you really saying that these sheets did not originate from the RM ?

6. What should have been done better ?
How about admitting there was a production problem and not lying about it at the time ?
How about treating customers better and not passing the blame on someone else ?
You should also have been more receptive to customer complaints and have been willing to exchange subquality coins - those that were seriously poor and there are pictures on this thread.

Fortunately the newer coins are okay so I don't wish to complain any further.
The problems seem to have been resolved so the early damage & frustrations will work through the system in time.
Pity that you were not posting to this site when the issues were at their peak.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/731_image.jpg
Source:
Coin tube which can only contain 20 coins.,
Mint seals removed.
Source:
Click to expand...

Sorry you're right, my mistake - 20 coins per tube, 25 tubes per box. I made an error and should have checked my facts before hitting 'Submit'. The tube you show appears to be one of the newer ones with softer more flexible plastics than earlier versions - I trust the coins in that tube were acceptable? As for the sheets of coins - I can't comment as I'm unsure when and why we may have used those. I will speak to our bullion team to get further information.

Our previous 'bullion' products were not produced in a typical bullion production process, and the quality was more or less equivalent to our 'Brilliant Uncirculated' standard. The issues were with coins produced specifically as bullion using new processes and blanks.

We are now 'up to speed' and have always been responsive to customers who have contacted us with complaints. I would not want you to think that we take this lightly.

Travelgall said:
My question is about future issues. Will the designs that appeared previously on the 1997-2012 .925 coins be appearing on the .999 proof ones? If so the 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2009 worked well IMHO. The 2008, 2010, 2011 did not, especially 2011 which was confused.

Are the designs going to change every year like Pandas (Except 2001 and 2002) and is 2013 the last year we will see that design which has appeared previously. Or is it going to be on a basis like before and the designs popping up at random with our good lady with the Toast Fork as appeared on the 2013 and many others making regular visits throughout the years.

Oh and what pressure is the Royal Mint putting on the Government to make these coins 0% Vatted like your Gold Offerings? It is quite clear that the Britannia could become infinitely more popular if in its country of issue you didn't pay an extra 20% for the privilege of collecting what is quite clearly an investment. I have to buy them in Germany or Guernsey and then get them shipped back to the UK which is daft. Last time I checked you only offer Proofs on your web site, will that continue or do you plan to offer bulk sales of the ordinary rated coins?
Click to expand...

Future issues of Britannia Bullion will ALL use the Philip Nathan design. That's the original design used to launch the coin in 1987 and reused last year. No other designs will be used. The Britannia Bullion coin is handled completely separately to Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated (our 'collector' coins).

Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated will see a new design every year. We have some interesting plans for this coin!

We don't put pressure on the Government and we don't sell coins for investment purposes - that is not The Royal Mint's role. We are a Mint, we make coins, we don't offer investment advice.
 
jameso said:
Photonaware said:
Where do I start ?

1. Those of us who purchased the early release of silver 2013 Britannias expected a superb product.
Previous bullion coins were stunning and your gold coins, proof coins and other coins were consistently of a very high quality.
The promotional literature for your bullion coins used words like stunning, beautiful etc.
If we were purchasing silver rounds or seconds then we should not have paid the usual high premiums on Britannias compared to say Philharmonicas which remain one of the cheapest coins yet are in very good condition always.

2. All coins can become collectors coins whether bullion or not.
Perth Mint coins for example are shipped in capsules for protection yet are bullion coins costing no more than your bullion coins.
How many people on this forum would have accepted the coin condition you issued if it applied to their Kookaburras, Snakes & Dragons to then be told they are not intended as collectors coins but merely for their scrap value ?

3. You were not novices in producing fine silver coins and the English Rose didn't show all the process damage of the new Britannias so somewhere on the production line there was a defect. What is worse, the coins were shipped with a QC number / sticker so I assume the only check you made was weight with no inspection whatsover ?

4. I cannot comment on the tube size only hearing that you were unable apparently to supply coins in tubes or there were problems with tubes.
The tubes I received my coins in contained 20 and not 25 and had a Royal Mint tape seal on the grey lid.

5. The early coins I refer to were supplied in sheets of square sections that easily separated.
Each coin was effectively encapsulated individually.
Across the sheet was printed Royal Mint and there were QC stickers on each sheet.
Are you really saying that these sheets did not originate from the RM ?

6. What should have been done better ?
How about admitting there was a production problem and not lying about it at the time ?
How about treating customers better and not passing the blame on someone else ?
You should also have been more receptive to customer complaints and have been willing to exchange subquality coins - those that were seriously poor and there are pictures on this thread.

Fortunately the newer coins are okay so I don't wish to complain any further.
The problems seem to have been resolved so the early damage & frustrations will work through the system in time.
Pity that you were not posting to this site when the issues were at their peak.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/731_image.jpg
Source:
Coin tube which can only contain 20 coins.,
Mint seals removed.
Source:
Click to expand...

Sorry you're right, my mistake - 20 coins per tube, 25 tubes per box. I made an error and should have checked my facts before hitting 'Submit'. The tube you show appears to be one of the newer ones with softer more flexible plastics than earlier versions - I trust the coins in that tube were acceptable? As for the sheets of coins - I can't comment as I'm unsure when and why we may have used those. I will speak to our bullion team to get further information.

Our previous 'bullion' products were not produced in a typical bullion production process, and the quality was more or less equivalent to our 'Brilliant Uncirculated' standard. The issues were with coins produced specifically as bullion using new processes and blanks.

We are now 'up to speed' and have always been responsive to customers who have contacted us with complaints. I would not want you to think that we take this lightly.

Travelgall said:
My question is about future issues. Will the designs that appeared previously on the 1997-2012 .925 coins be appearing on the .999 proof ones? If so the 2003, 2005, 2007 and 2009 worked well IMHO. The 2008, 2010, 2011 did not, especially 2011 which was confused.

Are the designs going to change every year like Pandas (Except 2001 and 2002) and is 2013 the last year we will see that design which has appeared previously. Or is it going to be on a basis like before and the designs popping up at random with our good lady with the Toast Fork as appeared on the 2013 and many others making regular visits throughout the years.

Oh and what pressure is the Royal Mint putting on the Government to make these coins 0% Vatted like your Gold Offerings? It is quite clear that the Britannia could become infinitely more popular if in its country of issue you didn't pay an extra 20% for the privilege of collecting what is quite clearly an investment. I have to buy them in Germany or Guernsey and then get them shipped back to the UK which is daft. Last time I checked you only offer Proofs on your web site, will that continue or do you plan to offer bulk sales of the ordinary rated coins?
Click to expand...

Future issues of Britannia Bullion will ALL use the Philip Nathan design. That's the original design used to launch the coin in 1987 and reused last year. No other designs will be used. The Britannia Bullion coin is handled completely separately to Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated (our 'collector' coins).

Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated will see a new design every year. We have some interesting plans for this coin!

We don't put pressure on the Government and we don't sell coins for investment purposes - that is not The Royal Mint's role. We are a Mint, we make coins, we don't offer investment advice.
Click to expand...

Funny, I loved the 2010 coin, and have a stack of them. Not sure what travelgall didn't like about them. I thought they rocked. LOL. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. LOL. By the way, will you mint the BU to demand? Is their a max mintage amount you will put on that coin. That is an important question to answer. I won't be a buyer of your bullion coin, unless it is like 2.99 above spot like ASE's, because your bullion is most definitely not better than those, and for you to charge a premium on your bullion series is just flat out ludicrous and ridiculous. Glad I bought when I did (1998 - 2012)!!
 
By the way, can you recommend anyone in the states who is selling the BU? James (anyone?) what is the mint amount on those. Please tell me it ain't 'mint to demand?' If so, I'm not a buyer.
 
The Brilliant Uncirculated Britannia will be struck without mintage limits I'm afraid.

Proof Britannia does have a limit. There are interesting numbers in the Britannia range if you're after rarities.

If you check the website it lists the a limit - For the 1oz that 2,500. That is the presentation limit, not the absolute mintage limit though. The mintage limit is 8,500 which allows us to present the product in sets and collections etc... Still a low issue I would say.

Perhaps most interesting is the 1/20 oz Britannia. A tiny coin, limited in this presentation to 1,000 and in total to 5,500.
 
jameso said:
The Brilliant Uncirculated Britannia will be struck without mintage limits I'm afraid.

Proof Britannia does have a limit. There are interesting numbers in the Britannia range if you're after rarities.

If you check the website it lists the a limit - For the 1oz that 2,500. That is the presentation limit, not the absolute mintage limit though. The mintage limit is 8,500 which allows us to present the product in sets and collections etc... Still a low issue I would say.

Perhaps most interesting is the 1/20 oz Britannia. A tiny coin, limited in this presentation to 1,000 and in total to 5,500.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response. So, point of clarification, unlike the Perth Mint, you will never have a declared mintage on the BU series? If so, thanks, but no thanks. :-). For newbies out there, if true, and you want some type of semi numi play with BU coins, stay away from these, and go with the Perth Mint (sorry for my candidness James). They have yet to cave into 'mint to demand' on their bullion series (Kooks, Lunar, and Koala). Even their Koala bullion, listed as unlimited, eventually has a declared mintage (a year later?).

Sorry to say, I'm finished with the Britannia series. Perhaps if I'm really wow'd by one of the designs in the future years, I'll buy the proof coins. All the best to you James. Thanks again for joining us, and embracing some of the challenges you've been hit with from members on this board
 
Jameso,
It looks like you are missing a trick. I'm not saying I don't like the 2013 design, I think it is excellent. But the reason why Britannia's were collectible in the past is that they changed designs regularly. Look at all the National coin series that sell well year after year - Panda's, Kookaburras, the ATB 5oz coins and for the last 3 years the Canadian wildlife - they change designs each year, are imaginative and a joy to collect. And because they are all different they increase in value greatly over their more prosaic cousins. What in essence the Royal Mint is offering is the same in a crowded marketplace as a Maples, Eagles, Philharmonic, Taku's, Noah's Ark or Libertads. Year after year the same coin rather than something new, exciting and collectible.

Am I the only one who thinks the Royal Mint is missing a huge opportunity here for the demand for different sets of coins? I'm a patriot who serves in the British Army and even I'm not going to buy more than one of these same coins each year. I'll buy Aussie and Chinese thank you very much. Never mind our overseas friends who will look at this coin series and say "Boring". We have 2000 years of history we could incorporate into these coins, we could show off the best of what is British and use an array of artists, instead the Royal Mint will have to put some ridiculous Privy Mark on them in a desperate (and looking at what happened to the Maple Leaf coin guaranteed to fail) attempt to get them collectible.

In my opinion you seriously need to reconsider this. You've just taken a Blunderbuss to your own foot.

Oh and I agree with all the other posters - declared mintage's. Not that it will matter, because if you want to buy the same coin year after year you're going to buy ASE's which have a greater brand recognition than Britannia's ever will, are guaranteed to sell in the key silver markets.
 
Travelgall said:
What in essence the Royal Mint is offering is the same in a crowded marketplace as a Maples, Eagles, Philharmonic, Taku's, Noah's Ark or Libertads.
Click to expand...

Indeed - that is the market we are aiming for with the Britannia and Sovereign Bullion range. Banks demand recognition and metal purity above and beyond any aesthetic value the coin may have.

Travelgall said:
We have 2000 years of history we could incorporate into these coins, we could show off the best of what is British and use an array of artists
Click to expand...

This is what the Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated range will do. Each year there will be a new Britannia design.

Two different coin ranges - Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated (for collectors), Britannia Bullion (for banks and metal buyers).
 
barsenault said:
So, point of clarification, unlike the Perth Mint, you will never have a declared mintage on the BU series? If so, thanks, but no thanks. :-). For newbies out there, if true, and you want some type of semi numi play with BU coins, stay away from these, and go with the Perth Mint (sorry for my candidness James). They have yet to cave into 'mint to demand' on their bullion series (Kooks, Lunar, and Koala). Even their Koala bullion, listed as unlimited, eventually has a declared mintage (a year later?).

Sorry to say, I'm finished with the Britannia series. Perhaps if I'm really wow'd by one of the designs in the future years, I'll buy the proof coins. All the best to you James. Thanks again for joining us, and embracing some of the challenges you've been hit with from members on this board
Click to expand...

BU to us is Brilliant Uncirculated NOT Bullion. Our Brilliant Uncirculated are struck to a higher standard than Bullion.

No issue limit on BU as far as I know. I could check. Certainly no issue limit on Bullion.
 
jameso said:
barsenault said:
So, point of clarification, unlike the Perth Mint, you will never have a declared mintage on the BU series? If so, thanks, but no thanks. :-). For newbies out there, if true, and you want some type of semi numi play with BU coins, stay away from these, and go with the Perth Mint (sorry for my candidness James). They have yet to cave into 'mint to demand' on their bullion series (Kooks, Lunar, and Koala). Even their Koala bullion, listed as unlimited, eventually has a declared mintage (a year later?).

Sorry to say, I'm finished with the Britannia series. Perhaps if I'm really wow'd by one of the designs in the future years, I'll buy the proof coins. All the best to you James. Thanks again for joining us, and embracing some of the challenges you've been hit with from members on this board
Click to expand...

BU to us is Brilliant Uncirculated NOT Bullion. Our Brilliant Uncirculated are struck to a higher standard than Bullion.

No issue limit on BU as far as I know. I could check. Certainly no issue limit on Bullion.
Click to expand...

I care not for the bullion. Will not...ever buy the bullion. Period. I agree with travelgal, if I want to buy a coin with the same image for stacking purposes, I'll buy the ASE's. They are cheaper and more liquid. And I most definitely won't buy you BU if you never declare a mintage on them...no way! And I suggest no one else buy them either, because they will never grow in value since I can buy them any time. And the proofs, well, those are way too expensive. I simply think you've done yourself in with this strategy. Time will tell if I'm crazy. Now, if you declare a mintage on the BU (designs change every year), then I'd be interested...otherwise, Perth Mint, you get my 1000+ ounces I purchase every year. Sorry Jameso
 
My input is they are the royal mint and shouldn't release an inferior product no matter what

It's like the guy(dealer) who tried selling me a fresh from the roll(that I didn't see) year of the snake with a big scratch across the queens head saying oh its just a BU coin that I paid $40 for when spot was around $26....yeah that didn't work for him
 
jameso said:
Indeed - that is the market we are aiming for with the Britannia and Sovereign Bullion range. Banks demand recognition and metal purity above and beyond any aesthetic value the coin may have.

This is what the Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated range will do. Each year there will be a new Britannia design.

Two different coin ranges - Britannia Proof and Brilliant Uncirculated (for collectors), Britannia Bullion (for banks and metal buyers).
Click to expand...

Having worked in Banking for 13 years I guarantee you that banks won't give a fig what is on the front of the coin as long as it is from a recognised Mint and guaranteed 999 pure. So why not appeal to Bullion collectors who like different designs too? You're making the master hubs for the coins anyway for the Proof Series, why not just keep using those once you've finished the proofs for the ordinary Bullion, just not NGC 69-70 like the ones you would expect from the first strikes.

The Swiss banks I worked for didn't use coins anyway as a store of bullion - they bought bars of the stuff, or worst case rounds. And whilst I'm not a metal buyer for industrial uses I would imagine they will buy bars and rounds too. Why would they buy something at a premium to spot if they could just buy at spot? They just want exposure to the metal. But Private Bullion collectors who in the main collect coins want the Numismatics to increase too.

With the Britannia set, I'll buy one per annum. Perth Mint and Shenzen mint I'm buying 30 from them each 1/2 year.
 
Hi All,

My recent purchase of Brits cost me 19.22 / $31.87AUD$ and Eagles 18.53 / $30.64AUD$.

Not much of a premium here on the Brits and the CGT (Capital Gains Tax.) relief does work well here.

I generally stack a mixture for coins, rounds and bars as part of a bigger investment folder. 80/20 split on silver to gold as a 10% of my total investment.

The quality of the Brits was very, very poor a fact that nobody at the Royal mint could ever admit to, But the quality of all my brits now has been near perfection as i held off buying them until recently.

I look to buy a variety of bullion coin/rounds to keep me interested in silver and regularly see somthing different worth buying such as the 1 1/2 oz polar bear.

Stack 'em. :)
 
Stack 'em high said:
Hi All,

My recent purchase of Brits cost me 19.22 / $31.87AUD$ and Eagles 18.53 / $30.64AUD$.

Not much of a premium here on the Brits and the CGT (Capital Gains Tax.) relief does work well here.

I generally stack a mixture for coins, rounds and bars as part of a bigger investment folder. 80/20 split on silver to gold as a 10% of my total investment.

The quality of the Brits was very, very poor a fact that nobody at the Royal mint could ever admit to, But the quality of all my brits now has been near perfection as i held off buying them until recently.

I look to buy a variety of bullion coin/rounds to keep me interested in silver and regularly see somthing different worth buying such as the 1 1/2 oz polar bear.

Stack 'em. :)
Click to expand...

Good prices but did you include the 20% VAT we have to fork out ?
Maybe you bought in Germany or managed to stay under the HMRC radar importing from outside the EU?

I got my Polar Bears from Aurinum in Germany - nice coin 1.5 oz and waiting on capsules.
 
Does anyone have reliable numbers on the actual mintages of Britannia mint state coins 1998-2014? There are conflicting numbers on the internet especially for the 2002 and 2006 bullion. Also, I purchased a 2001 Britannia in a Royal Mint card which is nicely toned on the Britannia side. Is there any value added for a coin that is toned?
 
hihosilveraway said:
Does anyone have reliable numbers on the actual mintages of Britannia mint state coins 1998-2014? There are conflicting numbers on the internet especially for the 2002 and 2006 bullion. Also, I purchased a 2001 Britannia in a Royal Mint card which is nicely toned on the Britannia side. Is there any value added for a coin that is toned?
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of these bullion coins. I have all years from 1998 - 2011, and the U.S., dealers have erroneous information, IMHO. They give crazy mintages on some years like 47,000. However, I've been told from folks in the U.K. that all years are 100K mintage. Oh, and the mint changed their policy in 2013, where they no longer limit the amount minted...it is unlimited, and the purity went from .925 to .999. And the quality went from a 10 (excellent) to a 3 (very poor). LOL. All the best.
 
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