1ST COIN OF NEW SERIES ( "Lunar Skulls" )

[barsenault]

If I may draw a comparison. I thought the Niue snakebite coin turned out pretty close to its "sketch" with the "details / shading" and all.

I'd say this is a big difference. I agree with the person who said for some, this may end in tears. Not for me, as I knew it is a roll of the dice. I feel bad for the 'sucker' who pays 750.00 for a coin they have yet to see. That's concerning. And I don't care if FCC reads this post. They need to.

sketch (click to enlarge).


actual (click to enlarge)

 

[Nabullion Dynamite]

If I may draw a comparison. I thought the Niue snakebite coin turned out pretty close to its "sketch" with the "details / shading" and all.

Yeah I'm not really impressed with that one but I have not seen one in person. The sketch looks different then the photo of the coin and the photo of the coin looks different then the coin in person It doesn't seem like the detail is as much of a problem as getting the depth to look right. That snake looks flat.

 

[barsenault]

If I may draw a comparison. I thought the Niue snakebite coin turned out pretty close to its "sketch" with the "details / shading" and all.

Yeah I'm not really impressed with that one but I have not seen one in person. The sketch looks different then the photo of the coin and the photo of the coin looks different then the coin in person It doesn't seem like the detail is as much of a problem as getting the depth to look right. That snake looks flat.

If they nail it, they have a home run (or we do), if they don't, well, it will be single...probably not a money maker. We shall see. 500 minted, and govt issued, is low enough where I have to imagine we won't lose, but who knows, right. We roll the dice and hope for the best come early Jan. Good luck to all.

 

[Nabullion Dynamite]

I'm not worried we will be fine! They should privately send us on silver stackers a preview coin when it is completely so we can quickly unload our preorders if it sucks haha

 

[Luker]

You take away the shading from that sketch and you're left with absolutely nothing to engrave (given the depth restrictions you have when working on a coin).

Can't get the depth needed where the horns curl over, can't get the depth needed for the eye sockets.
You're meant to design a coin with the engraved sculpt in mind, this has very clearly not been done.

Just a few questions for those here more technically inclined/involved with coin design...

Are the terms high relief and ultra/extra high relief subjective in nature, or is there an actual depth range which defines these terms?

Does/would it it take a lot of extra effort to change the design from the former to the latter ?

To your point, what are the implications with this (or any coin for that matter) if the designer and sculptor find that they cannot get enough depth as a high relief, and that the coin appears much better as an ultra-high relief? Can one make the change and still retain the proof finish?

If it was possible to institute such a change, would those who pre-ordered the coin believing it to be a high-relief, be upset that the final product was an ultra-high relief if it looked better in the latter form?

Cheers,
Luker

 

[Razz]

Somalia lunar serie also made by the sunshine mint like this skull coin
the quality is not too good poor in a way like many others rounds or coins from the sunshine mint
lets hope they will make a super quality now for these prices
also the high relief coins are smaller and thicker then normal smaller surface less space

 

[Nabullion Dynamite]

Just from observations much of the most detailed and "Ultra High" Relief coins were not proof and had the antique finishes. Seems like they can get a much larger range of depth with the shading the antique finish can produce. But like mentioned about the Horns it would be difficult to have that look like it is supposed to and not just appear flat especially if it is just a silver color like the snake coin shown

 

[Gatito Bandito]

If we have to wait 12 years to get all of these, I think I will give up before the series is complete.

In 12 years, that $750 USD for the Goat Skull proof could look like a bargain..


Or not..

 

[Gatito Bandito]

Nice coin indeed i wonder what the rooster or rat skull looks like

Especially looking forward to: Goat, Rooster, Ox, Snake


Anybody know what a dragon skull looks like?


Regardless, any & all have the potential to look really cool.

 

[Luker]

Just from observations much of the most detailed and "Ultra High" Relief coins were not proof and had the antique finishes. Seems like they can get a much larger range of depth with the shading the antique finish can produce. But like mentioned about the Horns it would be difficult to have that look like it is supposed to and not just appear flat especially if it is just a silver color like the snake coin shown

I just realized after reading more posts on this thread , that my earlier question regarding the difference between High Relief and Extra/Ultra/Extremely High Relief is more relevant, after noticing that the First Coin Company describes the coins as being Ultra High Relief, but son-montuno's eBay listings describe the coins as being merely High Relief. Perhaps I am being a stickler, but I think this is an important difference non? I will e-mail son-montuno to clarify this seeming discrepancy.

Cheers,
Luker

p.s. besides, my girlfriend will be more impressed if I tell her that I have an Ultra High Relief

 

[Gatito Bandito]

everyone buying in on a nice sketch of a skull. Emphasis on the word SKETCH.

this is going to end in tears, you can not engrave that kind of detail.

The tuna & the goat skull are 2 completely different kinds of graphics.

The skull is also high-relief.

The tuna is also produced by a mint that has a poor reputation for quality.


Besides, I believe many of us took that appearance/quality factor into consideration prior to purchasing.

Per eBay history, there were only 2 buyers in the original listing who purchased 5 proofs @ $89 USD apiece. In total, there were 25 unique buyers who bought up the 50, for an average of 2 -- which means there were plenty of 1's to balance out those 3's, 4's & 5's.

I don't know if any of the above participated in the subsequent proof listings at the higher prices. 15 total were sold in those. Off the top of my head, I believe 2 was the max quantity per buyer.

Nobody went hog-wild with these, IMO.


In the end, I might end up wishing I had bought 5 proofs. Or, perhaps zero.

Instead, I did what I could do monetarily & thought best, and went with 2 each of proof & BU, hedging my bets.

It might turn out that the BU looks better in person. Or looks way worse. Or they both look hot -- or both suck. Time will tell.

 

[mmissinglink]

To answer the question by Luker regarding "high relief" vs "ultra high relief" I do think those are subjective terms. Some of the best recent examples I have seen of an ultra high relief coin in my view are these (there are many other examples but just listing 3):

1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-S-2-Ni...22?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item51c032e406

2) http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...-secrets-of-pena-palace-coin-has-arrived.html

3) http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANADA-15-D...9290?pt=US_Canadian_Coins&hash=item3ceb47f4fa



But when comparing the relief of ultra high relief coins to medals, medals win hands down. For example...look at the relief on these incredible medals:

1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/181570163755?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

2) http://www.ebay.com/itm/261673852337?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

3) http://www.ebay.com/itm/151094113829?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT





.

 

[Luker]

I ended up purchasing two of the proofs at $89 and an additional two proofs at $99 , and three of the BU version.
If I like the proofs a lot more than the BU version I suppose that I would try to flip two sets ( of one BU and one proof-with the cost of the BUs being my original cost )..not sure if that is a realistic expectation as I've never flipped any of my coins/rounds. ...in the event that I like neither of the coins, I suppose I will be relegated to wating until the price of silver reaches $100/oz, before I consider possibly unloading them .

Cheers,
Luker

 

[Gatito Bandito]

I'm starting to wonder what the true demand is, or did we at SS pump this issue up to the point where First Coin Company makes a statement like this? Afterall, I have to imagine that we bought 95% of the proof issue, yes? The true test will be what the demands is outside of our community, after all, if anyone goes to sell, we need demand from more than just our community. LOL. Oh, and I'm assuming that the 2000 mintage for the BU is only 1,000 U.S., and 1000 for Asia and Europe. Still a small supply.

We didn't buy 95% of the proof issue.

There were 50 in the original listing, and either 15 or 20 total in 3 subsequent listings (which were perhaps from the other dealers who were allotted 5-10 apiece, and had son-montuno sell for them). That's only 70, tops, made available at eBay. Out of 500. Which is 14%.


Keep in mind, too, that son-montuno already had a bit of an established following, with an average of 7.5 sold listings per day in the last 6 months, per eBay feedback. I've purchased from him prior to this, but typically only check his listings every once in a while. He does have some pretty cool / lower-mintage stuff.

I don't know how many eBay followers he had before this, but he's now at 250. Some of them could have gotten first-crack at the proofs. So it's probably not just us here.


Anyway, 500 + 2,000 for legal tender is pretty tiny. I dabble in the sub-10K space, both current & historical stuff. It's out there, but oftentimes one has to stray from the beaten path & poke around a little.

With a concept & design like this, I'm sure word will continue to spread. Remember, the 1st proof listing only began like 48 hours ago.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

So now i know First coin company is full of shit a 90 dollar coin for 750 oh 3% discount thanks so much how u mean pump it up by the forum
got some bu versions lets see

Highest price for the proof that I've seen sold on eBay was $129 USD.


That $89 price-tag is long gone. (Hopefully we don't see that again due to any quality issues. :lol

 

[Gatito Bandito]

You take away the shading from that sketch and you're left with absolutely nothing to engrave (given the depth restrictions you have when working on a coin).

Can't get the depth needed where the horns curl over, can't get the depth needed for the eye sockets.
You're meant to design a coin with the engraved sculpt in mind, this has very clearly not been done.

Per FCC, the relief is approx. 1.7mm.

Assuming that's at its highest point(s). Probably areas such as the base of the horns, curved end of the horns, center of forehead, eye sockets & front of its snout.


One of the versions (proof, BU) could potentially look better than the other. Eventual toning could also play a role.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

Antique finish coins should not to become a proof coin. Make no sense to me.
If you need to gamble for a short profit stay away from this proof.
If you could not resist go for the BU and sell as soon as possible for a 50% profit.

Lots of antique finish versions pop up since the hype started with the hedgehog.
No more takers for this coin and a lot of money was burned with the sweet liitle guy.

Any takers ?

Flip ASAP?

This has the potential to be at least a 12-year series -- and a pretty unique one, at that.


If it continues to catch fire, subsequent years could see higher mintages to meet demand from growing popularity.

In 3 or 10 years or whatever, what do you think that will do to the desirability & price for these 1st-year versions?


Even if these Goat Skulls come out only half as nice, I'm sure there will be some improvements in the design & minting processes in the coming years, attracting a larger following.

 

[magickookaburraride]

So any fly-by-night operation can petition for official African country coin production , and it's status magically changes from a round to a coin....and because they say they will only make 500/2K of them you guys go ape shit and buy them up thinking these are in the same league as the Gods of Olympus coins. ?

Thats what I am seeing in this thread, do you realize how many more African countries there are ?

Just because some German mints became the defacto producers of Somalian and Rwandan coinage, doesn't mean just any garage based entrepreneur can pull it off ....even if they can get the physical strikes looking good ( Look at the new Prospector round by Provident, it is awesome ...but still just a round at round prices )....getting that magical ok to produce an African coin makes their round worth 750 bucks ?

I am sorry, but this one says sucker written all over it.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

If I may draw a comparison. I thought the Niue snakebite coin turned out pretty close to its "sketch" with the "details / shading" and all.

The Niue Snakebite sketch relies way too much on large solid dark areas to make it work.

Compare it side-by-side to son-montuno's sketch, which wisely avoids those solid areas.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

So any fly-by-night operation can petition for official African country coin production , and it's status magically changes from a round to a coin....and because they say they will only make 500/2K of them you guys go ape shit and buy them up thinking these are in the same league as the Gods of Olympus coins. ?

Thats what I am seeing in this thread, do you realize how many more African countries there are ?

Just because some German mints became the defacto producers of Somalian and Rwandan coinage, doesn't mean just any garage based entrepreneur can pull it off ....even if they can get the physical strikes looking good ( Look at the new Prospector round by Provident, it is awesome ...but still just a round at round prices )....getting that magical ok to produce an African coin makes their round worth 750 bucks ?

I am sorry, but this one says sucker written all over it.

Again, private mints (US & elsewhere) have been minting Ag legal tender for small countries going back to at least the 1970s (of which I own some, and they look damn good).

Based on what I've seen, I suspect that the practice goes back to at least the 1960s -- and probably even earlier.

IOW, this is nothing new.


As for $750, I've yet to see anybody buy a proof of these for that price. FCC still has 5 in stock.

They have every right to ask what they want. Doesn't mean they'll get it, though.