[QA] Getting Coins graded

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by SilverTouch, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. Austacker

    Austacker Active Member

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    Are there any others and do they recognise this as an error/mule ?
     
  2. metalzzz

    metalzzz Well-Known Member

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    i have no idea but i have one. not in great condition though
     
  3. Austacker

    Austacker Active Member

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    Not sure if the link will work -

    Membership Levels
    http://www.ncscoin.com/MemberPortal/Login.aspx

    Grading Fees
    http://www.ncscoin.com/conservation/services_and_fees.asp

    These are the price options. From what I can tell there is now a "New" level that is $249 and includes 5 x NCS - NGC Vouchers, so that is $132.00 ($26.50 current price NCS/NGC) of value. You are then paying an extra $116.00 for really I don't know what else ?

    The $125 option looks good if you only want to send in for NGC coins, which I may do as I have some 1/10 Au to get done. This gives 5 gradings at $16.50 so you still are left with about $44 for just joining again the $39 option looks better, see below.

    To me the best bet is join as an associate for $39. From what I can tell I am saving $77 which in fact gives me nearly 3 gradings anyway. So unless someone can tell me that I have read it all wrong I think I will join at $39 and start submitting ?

    How do you tell the differences in these -

    World Modern $16.50 10 working days 10 working days Regular issue coins struck after 1970 up to $2,000 in value. No patterns, die trials, etc. Five (5) coin minimum.
    World Modern Special $23 10 working days 10 working days Regular issue coins struck after 1970 up to $2,000 in value requiring a special label including Releases designations. Five (5) coin minimum.

    So do we need to submit a 1995MDST or 2000M as World Modern Special ? if so then NCS does not recognise this ?

    Or will the $26.50 NCS cover them ?

    Modern Tier $26.50 per coin Submit any uncertified US or World coin struck from 1970 to present. One flat fee includes NCS conservation and NGC
    certification. Following conservation, coins are transferred to NGC, where they are graded and encapsulated in
    the NGC holder. Not genuine coins or coins with altered dates or mintmarks will be returned uncertified.
    Maximum value $3,000 per coin. Five (5) coin minimum

    This is so friggen confusing...
     
  4. heyimderrick

    heyimderrick Active Member

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    The Associate or Premium levels are the way to go value-wise. Both will let you submit items to any of their affiliate companies. The 5 free gradings at NGC is a decent value because it is for a tier that already includes the scratch free holder (not included in the NGC world modern tier) and allows you to send higher value coins. If you're only going to submit to NCS then it may not be worthwhile joining at the premium level. Do what is most cost effective for your needs.

    When you submit Pandas, they will include the proper date/variety under the world modern tier at NCS and NGC without an additional fee. They were going to charge fees and then reversed the decision.
     
  5. Austacker

    Austacker Active Member

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    I just rang Customs to find out about the import duties, GST etc...

    Well it appears this is good news. What you need to do is keep your original details/paperwork of exporting the goods to NGC. NGC need to only add the value for what you have PAID for, this is what they are interested in.

    So even if your coins are worth $1,000's you only pay duty on the services you have paid for in this transaction. Which I may add was what I thought. So that is huge. You can all thank me later :D
     
  6. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Top stuff Austacker! That is good to hear!

    But me fears that customs may still arbitrarily impose gst/taxes/delays.
     
  7. Austacker

    Austacker Active Member

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    Just keep your paperwork :) it may cause a delay but we don't want any extra costs.
     
  8. Zinger

    Zinger New Member

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    You are right about this being confusing. To answer your question.

    You would need to submit them under the NCS Modern Tier for $26.50. Ironically, with this variety, you will still only get SMALLTWIG SMALLDATE attribution, because MD is not recognised by NGC at this time.

    Variety and Large Date or Small Date attribution is included in the fee currently.



    You make an excellent point about how nonsense the membership structure is currently. Elite offers no NCS discounts, and the Premium Plus NCS level costs an extra $200 but only includes an extra $130 worth of value. I have recently e-mailed NCS about this and their response did not offer much insight into the situation.


    As for the customs clearance, having imported quite a few shipments of coins, some my own, and some new purchases, it is always a challenging issue, it has never gone smoothly, however it has always worked out in the end. I have found UPS to be the best at handling them, as they have an included brokerage service. But using USPS and doing the legwork yourself is ok too.

    The important piece of legislation is Division 117 of the GST Act http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s117.5.html The GST exemption code to use is 420A. The harmonized code for legal tender coins will be 7118.90.00. Medals will be 9705.00.0

    Read and interpret it yourself, however it states that if an item is exported for repair or renovation (i.e. conservation) and subsequently re-imported, the taxable value of the goods amounts to the value of the repair provided, as well as the shipping and handling to return the goods to Australia.

    NGC will fill out the customs declaration as per your declaration on your submission sheet. This will result in someone calling you to collect the 10% GST and (sometimes trying to collect 5% Duty). You need to inform them the parcel contains goods re-imported after repair and the taxable value should be 10% of the value of the repair. Usually you will have to submit your NCS/NGC invoice directly to them to substantiate this claim and proceed with clearance. As per the legislation, the rate of duty for the repair is assesed at the same rate as for the goods. In our case 0%

    One point of note, is that if the conservation, grading and shipping costs less than $1000AUD, there will be no taxes involved. This is especially important when you consider that the moment you cross the threshold it will cost $150 (10% Tax $60 Customs/Brokerage Fee)

    As for the paperwork, I typically declare outgoing goods at their market value, as Numismatic Supplies or Numismatic Goods. I then keep the Air Waybill to prove export of the goods. I have only needed this once, they have taken me at my word all other times.
     
  9. heyimderrick

    heyimderrick Active Member

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    This is an incorrect statement and it has been discussed on this forum and addressed. I've personally confirmed with NGC/NCS that the fees for panda attributions that they instated in January have been reversed. There is no fee for date/variety attributions on the majority of pandas. They haven't announced it in a newsletter yet, to my knowledge, but there is no $12 fee for a 2000 frosted or a 1999 LD, etc.

    You can see what coins may have fees from this list:

    http://www.ngccoin.com/VPcategories.aspx

    You can also review the discussions about this topic here:

    http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-20967-ngc-charging-for-varieties.html

    Good luck with your submissions.
     
  10. low

    low New Member

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    PCGS au50 selling for about $800 on ebay. Uncertified one sell for around $300 - $500 depending on the condition.
     
  11. Zinger

    Zinger New Member

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    NCS/NGC really need to pick their act up on this, because they are providing different information to different people at different times.

    All varieties, including LD/SD are still listed on their variety plus categories, and there are no mentioned exceptions/exclusions.

    The quote from Peter Anthony on this matter is as follows.

    I have also called NGC and spoken to a representative and they provided me the same information.

    I am not sure where your information was sourced from, but currently, all available information indicates VarietyPlus charges are only waived for LD/SD varieties.

    I desperately hope you are right, because charging to attribute any panda variety will cause some serious issues with the integrity of the census.
     
  12. heyimderrick

    heyimderrick Active Member

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    Take another look at the Panda listings from the VarietyPlus link above, you will see that the column for the fee associated is now blank again, except for one rarity. When the newsletter announcing the price increase came out, that column was populated with the $12 fee. I spoke with a trusted customer service rep at NGC to confirm that they reversed the decision to charge the fee for attributions. I also just received 20 coins back from NCS/NGC that all had their proper date attributions, including a 2000 frosted, and I was not charged any addition fee for that. I too agree that the information they have provided is hazy. I'd look for further clarification in their next newsletter release.
     
  13. Zinger

    Zinger New Member

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    Thanks very much for this heyimderrick. While there has been no official announcement, and NGC staff seem confused on the matter, it now seems clear that there is no longer the fee for variety attribution.

    I have edited my original post so it reflects the correct information.
     
  14. Austacker

    Austacker Active Member

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    Is there a way of submitting more than 10 coins per submission, if you have 30 coins to submit, this adds another $32 just for processing ?
     
  15. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hahah... that is the same question I asked them... If all 10coins are the same, you can put the 10 coins on the same line.
     
  16. tamo42

    tamo42 New Member

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    You can also just print out multiple orders and put them in one shipment.
     
  17. silverstar1

    silverstar1 New Member

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    I just got the grades from NGC for some pandas I sent, they were actually really fast faster than I ever remember before. They were about what I expected mostly 69s 3 68s , but what I really do not get is a 2010 I sent that i picked the best one out of a dozen or so looked very carefully and is was graded a 67 / I hope ngc did not scratch it during the process. I have had them do that twice out of only a hundred or so coins. The last one was a lunar ox that i obviously looked over really good but when i got it back it had a large scratch on the queens face , a scratch that there is no way I would have overlooked and it graded a 66, there is no way to prove it so there is nothing i can do. The other one was I think a rooster or dog lunar series 1 that i had them put in a new slab with the lunar animal side in the front it was an ms 70 but they scratched it as well and had to downgrade it to a 69 they did compinsate me which they had to since i sent a 70 and they were fair about it. Has anyone else had this happen ? not just a lower grade than expected but an obvious mark they made that you know was not there. Just wondering if this happens often , I still dont know if it is worth getting coins graded . Then I end up getting some coins they have graded ms 70 from large dealers that send them in by the 100s or 1000s and the coin will have obvious marks , nicks or spots..How consistant are they ?
     
  18. tamo42

    tamo42 New Member

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    In the PricePedia that came out today, Peter Anthony reports that grades are 85% repeatable (consistent).
     
  19. silverstar1

    silverstar1 New Member

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    Thanks Tamo that is interesting, he must crack them out of capsules and send them back in, it is the only way I can see but then they could still get slight damage by doing that or in transit . Does he say whether the other %15 grade higher or lower generally? also do you think 85% consistancy is good or bad . I also wonder if it is true that ngc is getting more strict because I sent several of each lunar coins from the same rolls that I have sent before and have always got a few 70s but this time they all came back at 69.
     
  20. Zinger

    Zinger New Member

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    I think you misinterperted what Tamo mentioned.

    Here is the direct quote from Peter Anthony

     

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