No offence M8 but twenty something, no kids, no debt, ? Taxpayers are the people who float the country, pay for they have every right to whine as you put it as they are the ones who pay for it all. They don't work their ass off so that some asshole has the right to a free plasma telly or Friday night at the pub or pokies. They do not have the free choice to ride on the back of someone who actually gets off their ass and works for a living, educates their kids, PAY'S TAXES, and subsidizies the chosen lifestyle of a fucking bludger. The problem nowadays is that everyone thinks they are entitled to a chosen pathway in life, that certain things are below them, That if they just wait long enough their chosen career of discovering Tutankhamen's Tomb will arrive on their doorstep or they will create the next Angry Birds app. Digging a hole or building a fence is below them, cleaning up after someone else is too demeaning or only done while waiting for the next big modeling or movie role. Study is now a life long career, followed by academic placement or politics, and cleaning or trolley pushing is seen as a step down from highschool instead of an after school job. Yeah but if I earn too much I lose my benefits is the all too common excuse for actually living off ones own back. All the while everyone forgets that every cent the government has comes from someone who earned it, every single dollar is taken from someone who actually worked for it.
I think he means this but don't quote me Edited : Oops better get rid of that title huh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQO1qZD5lek
The problem I have is Centerlink payments aren't that much different from a decent wage. For example a family with two kids, one income of 80K, for 40 hours per week. Minus tax (18K) = 62K. Minus travel to work (6K) = 56K. That's a little over $1000 per week. The same family on Newstart Centerlink payment. Gets $442.00 per week for the parents, $70 per week for rent assistance. And $200 per week for the kids. In total approx $712 per week. So the working family gets an extra $290 per week for working 40 hours. Or $7.25 per hour. And that doesn't include all the additional benefits the Centerlink family has access to. Such as free doctor visits, virtually free medication ...
Pensioners, unemployed should not get anymore then what they do...... My reason, i know of a few people who refuse to work and just live on centerlink and blow there money on alcho, gambling and going out, which pisses me off that they can go out and have fun without working and have there rent, food and bills payed for. What they need to do is lower the amount people receieve every 6 months (apart from pensioners, single mums) to the point it becomes nill payment to remove the scum
I'm with Chillidog here. A REAL disability pension should be way increased. I'll duck from the obligatory barrage I'm gonna cop here, but working in social work I see people every day who are managing their own support funding themselves in order to squeeze out every last cent. I'm also aware of people receiving pensions for disabilities and mental illness - the latter of which is an entirely new ball park - the difference between 'depression' and depression being not recognised by the current welfare system. I live in an area of Brisbane where a very large number of scumbag hippies reap the rewards of their Centrelink expertise, claiming 'depression' amongst other things, then boozing it on up most of the week. This is really evident in a number of bars or pubs I frequent. I work bloody hard for my $'s, as a non-permanent resident here in Australia I wasn't eligible for any financial support for the 8 weeks I was unemployed following my redundancy earlier this year, and was doing everything I could to pay the rent, bills and provide for me and my missus. My stack went down like a game of Jenga, I hustled jewellery in the pubs and markets, and got by alright. I still couldn't afford to go to the pub with my friends, unless I was playing a paid gig. Am I bitter for that - hell no! It was a great time, now I'm back earning fairly well I'm happy, but I'm very worried that the Australian welfare system is sliding into a UK-style money for all, where people choose to work instead of having to work. I watched it annihilate my home country, I pray it doesn't happen here. Summary - much needed funds into helping people with a disability or mental illness please! And Fund the fething NDIS asap too - we don't even get a pilot here in QLD... it's great to be backward!
You've got 1 year on the dole, in that year you are to learn to fend for yourself, re invent yourself and create an income for yourself. after 1 year, your family can take care of you !
Good luck finding a job with these useless comunists in power ,everytime they get in the jobs disappear overseas . they couldnt organise a root in a brothel
Ironic that in these discussions on hand outs, no one gives a fcuk about the person forced to pay for it. Says a lot about this country & our standard of values in society. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isI1NskFYT4[/youtube] (Take the time to watch this clip - it's important in the context of this discussion) Discussion of the concept of altruism as a virtue personally makes me want to be physically sick. Nothing against Ozboy personally, it's the subject that makes me incensed.
Ummm, good point but half the audience you are preaching to are on your side: Anyway, thanks for posting the vid. It successfully made me throw up my morning tea. I need to lose a bit of weight. Hopefully that makes you feel better that your giving has improved my welfare Altruism is a completely screwed up concept.
If you can be bothered, my sig is updated with a link to the complete playlist of John Galt's speech made into a visual documentary. Great project and for those who don't have the time or patience to at least read the book, the video series is a thought provoking view that can be entertaining to watch as well. The ideals of the philosiphy are intellectual and offputting to many because they almost completely contradict what society had indoctrinated in the people are 'moral' and 'just'. But if you ever wanted a crash course on what Objectivism is, this is actually a very good introduction to it. I just continue to note with a wry sense of irony that after years of copping so much grief on SS for being an unabashed Objectivist and expressing views as such, that time and again when topics like this come up, so many people have opinions and views which align perfectly to Objectivism's context of morals, standards and values. Without putting out labels, it almost feels like half the posters on this forum are Objectivists and just haven't made the connection or admission to themselves yet - or perhaps are fearful of the negative stigma that seems to be associated with Rand's ideals. Mind you, I'd daresay most of you at some point or another have been cast with the tin foil hat stereotype being physical PM holders, so that really shouldn't put you off. Ayn wasn't the only trail blazer for Objectivism in the day mind you, she also worked alongside Nathaniel Branden at the time to formulate and flesh out the philosiphy. Nathaniel is still around today and will give you a rundown that perhaps you can appreciate a little better without Ayn's controversial stigma? [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KZUKJjgCqg[/youtube] Okay, we're getting a little off topic here (I'm very passionate about the subject sorry!), but in a round about way this travels back to my prevailing issue with altruism and the topic at hand. I think it goes without saying, but I'll put in my 2 cents on the matter. Neither pensioners or centerlink recipients are 'deserving' of my stolen wealth. If the government makes promises to these people in years past, stealing from people like me today - it's still theft. If people have their own pension fund sorted out, paid through an indexed lump sum deposit on retirement - that's different. But this ideology that people should be forced to bleed to pay for the ideals of a government looking to buy unproductive members of societies votes, then I have a very, very big problem with it. In short, I say all centrelink and pensions should be cut COMPLETELY. Our entire welfare based model is based purely on progressive theft from the productive to the unproductive which over the long term simple erodes and eventually collapses our society based not only on economics, but morals and values as well. Another clip to reiterate my point : [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3KUMexwZeA[/youtube] Watch from 0:45 onwards. This is the core of this discussion and strikes at the heart of my ideals, enough to make me very angry just talking about it.
What about the fact that in three years time we will be giving out more in superannuation tax breaks than we'll be spending on the pension? Or the fact that our super system allows the top 5% of people earning an income get about 40% of the total benefits of "discounted" tax rates? Since these people are obviously productive, how does that fit with your assertion that our welfare system only takes money from the productive and gives it to the unproductive? Is "middle class welfare" not actually welfare at all simply because the recipients smell better?
I read somewhere that childcare subsidies were going to be a big killer in the future. we should start the cuts there I reckon.
Big A.D. a "tax break" only means they are taking less money it doesn't mean they aren't taking money. In absolute terms you can be nearly guaranteed that anyone in the top 5% are still paying far more in taxes even after getting 40% of the "tax breaks".
Yes, that's true, but our progressive taxation system works in virtually the same way that price discrimination works in a free market: prices reflect the consumer's ability to pay them. If we start discounting prices (taxes) just for the sake of it rather than because of market forces, we end up with less money to spend on other stuff. As a result, after 2016 "the taxpayer" is going to be worse off with the current superannuation system that it would have been if we'd never implemented it and stayed with the government's old age pension system.
Baaaah. :lol: You think my taxes will last that long? The socialists have already spent my taxes for the next few years. Besides, that is part of my strategy for stacking - take everything I own out of the system so I can eventually get a life-long refund on the taxes I have already paid.
I think it would be a mean spirited person to want to cut a pensioners only way of living when there is no other option for them. Stupidly, they were promised their whole lives if they worked hard and paid their taxes, they would have a government sponsored pension when they retired. It's a pity that every government since WW2 has used it as a PONZI scheme. We are one step ahead of America at least with super. Ron Paul wants a transition period so that young people are not in the same government defendant trap when they get old, whilst not throwing the current dependent group in the bin. We are already there because for the majority of us on these pages the pension will not be an option. We just have to get through the period of paying for our retirements whilst paying for our predecessors retirements at the same time. I'll admit, the pay off for this is that the money that should have been set aside for their pensions went into creating the infrastructure we all benefit from today. As far as healthy unemployed "bludgers". I think that once a certain period has lapsed (3-6 months), that instead of work for the dole, a mandatory training system be put in place to give people the skills to get jobs. Job offers will follow for these people eventually and if they refuse them they need to be cut off completely. What shits me the most is someone can go and rack up 15 grand on a music degree on HECS and probably take 15 years to pay it back, yet someone wanting to get into the mining sector can't use a similar facility to get mining relevant tickets that could be paid back in a year. All the while the government is allowing imported labour.
