Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by silverfever, May 15, 2012.
Yep, as Lim indicated, not all coins are equal
Buy the coin, not the grade
The old saying " too good to be true probably is" my experience lately on e bay 6 different expo panda,s now ,all bought in the last 4 weeks ,all returned ,ALL WITH MILK SPOTS GALORE there is a couple of dealers on bay with scanned pictures of 1998, 1999, 2006 expo,s ,you ask these guys does the coin have milk spots ,they answer you with bullshit like the coin represents the grade......... that Kung fu panda notice the angle of the photography trying to hide something??? look ,I am not a photographer but I try to take the best closeup picture of a coin to represent the coin accurately , all this bullshit just annoys me I pay 280 for 2006 expo,s raw truthfully, I passed over 30 coins with spots that i could have bought for 110...and then all this trash is out there on e bay being auctioned cheap and what the unsuspecting buyer thinks :woopie i bought it 100 dollars under market, IT IS A FRIGGIN DOOR STOP IS WHAT IT IS and IMHO effects the value of great coins out there , BUY THE COIN NOT THE GRADE!!! NGC because of its guarantee policy is grading these milky coins MS 66 at best..... so in my humble opinion if you buy and own a ms 69 coin 'that you scored cheap on the internet and it is loaded with spots" you bought a expensive paper wgt.
sorry about the rant ,i cant help myself sometimes....
I think you've submitted your thoughts rather well
I think the same. But if you ask for yes or no. And the answer is yes or no. You can grab a few bargains. I buy a 1988 1/10 gold in ms69 for 225 the other day.
Im only making lowballs offers now. And im win a few nice bargains.withouth milk spots.
But i allways before pay or bid ask for it.
you are right Thor there are some bargains ........you just have to be very careful.................
You can't go wrong if you buy the coin and not the holder.
Don't know if it too good to be true but I just picked up a 1980 China S30Y Olympics Football PF 69 for $232.50. Seems like a great price...?
Pricepedia has it listed for around $500.00?
Oops!!! This has a cameo instead of an ultra cameo designation... Hopefully I didn't pay too much...
Traditionally, sports, and particularly Olympics is not a popular theme within China.
The only time Olympics coins were extremely hot was during 2008 Beijing Olympics. Many people got their wallet burnt.
So I believe the demand for the Olympics coins have to be from outside of China to keep the price stable.
I admit, I try to be optimistic and hopeful all the time (it's been good for my health... and I've been blessed heaps throughout my life).
But my Panda brother low, you seem a bit bearish (pun intended) on everything (Chinese banknotes, Olympic coins, medals, etc)... possibly for good reason/s.
But tell me something that you're bullish on
The demand for olympic brass coins is quite healthy. And I am sure you are right about the demand being outside China. But I have one question Low, Do you consider China and the rest of the world as two different markets for MCC?
Thanks for your reply.
I thought of just provide some alternative view on otherwise everything positive in the forum.
For banknotes, yes I believe in first and second series of renminbi. Especially first series, if anyone can find any in good condition, and good price, go for it. Second series has some great rarities too. Chou En Lai personally involved in the design.
For Olympic coins, it is just the way it is now. People got burnt after spending lots of money on 2008 Olympics coins. I am not positive these very same people will spend any more money on Olympics coin in their life.
For medals, people here mainly speak English, and not Chinese. I doubt if more than 10% audience of this forum regularly visit Chinese forum. The number could be higher in CCF (there are many Chinese lurkers who never post). Therefore it is hard to get the view from China if you only read English forum.
Medals are interesting, but if what people know is only pagoda and goldfish, then it is not so interesting. There are other equally rare (mintage wise) or even rarer than pagoda that you probably won't hear people mention in this forum or CCF. Those are things I am interested to learn.
Following are some of my recent purchase. Those are what I like to have in my collection and would suggest people to have a look. Just don't pay too much for them.
http://search.ebay.com/140772384057 (you can add 2 "0" to the price if this is Shanghai proof set. Only 50 sets known!)
While I love 1st and 2nd series renminbi, I won't buy any.
Banknotes are difficult to take care. Also most of the seller doesn't know how to properly pack banknotes. The PMG holder is also very soft.
Prices for Olympic coins are volatile. I know dealers who avoid them for that reason. I've seen auctions take place in the same month where the same coin, same grade sells for three times more in one sale than in the other. That just means you have to be careful, but also that bargains can sometimes be found.
If we talk about modern China coins/medals, then the market can be breakdown into following 4 segments:
1. Precious metal commemorative coins.
2. Regular commemorative coins.
3. Circulation coins starting from 1955.
4. Small and large medals, both official mint and private.
#1: I see this area as being the west and the east complement each other. Many of the early coins were for export market, and the Chinese did not have them. The western people have more hands on experience with these coins but the Chinese have the official information. This area is interesting because it requires the collaboration between the west and the east to work out the complete picture.
#2: Regular commemorative coins experienced sudden peak in mid 1990s and many coins gained tons of gain within short time. Then market collapse, and that's game over for regular commemorative coins. The market have not recover since 1997. Due to this, I am a bit wary when I see the current market condition for precious metal coins.
#3: There are few sub niches within this market. The 1955 - 1980 Fen coins, 1980 - 1986 Great Wall series, proof set, mint set are all interesting area to work on. It is also a good challenge for people with deep pocket. The 1986 proof set has an undisputed mintage of 660. Current market price is USD 20000 or perhaps higher. Compared to pagoda, you don't see the 1986 proof set for sale frequently.
Both #2 and #3 are mainly Chinese dominated market. People in this market are passionate about their collection. They also are keen on varieties, but in a very healthy way. I was once a keen varieties collector and I really like the way these people handle the varieties. They also are keen on NGC graded coins. One thing interesting is they value a set (tao) in uniformly graded coins. Say a tao of all MS66 or MS67. So the collection consists on mixture of various grade is not as valuable as one with consistent grade. Some people will sell the MS67 in order to buy an MS66 just so to complete the set in MS66. Hahaha. That is how this market work.
#4: Chinese medal collectors are a group of truly passionate collectors. I have yet to come read about anything about grading in medal collecting forum. I am not sure whether if we will see these collectors also buying into NGC or other grading service. This area is really where you learn all about the culture and history for one who is interested to learn about Chinese culture and history via numismatics.
Thank you low for your perspective on Chinese coin market category break down, this helps to bring clarity to the newer collectors.
If you would be so kind, could you please help and give your opinion on which category you think is best for things like liquidity & short/medium/long term gains?
I am particularly confused with medals, they are beautiful but mostly undocumented and not seen very often on the western markets.
I'm unsure if they are unloved (because they are not coins?) or undiscovered.
Medals like this?
1987 3.3 oz God of Longevity PF 69 medal sold for $900.00 in the April 2012 Champion Auction. I wonder what happened to all the rich Asian buyers????
I missing it. (i dont use live auction only ebay and ss forum) Nice bargain
I think the ebay buyers and the champion auction buyers are diferents (in champion auctions sometimes sell for much more than ebay buy now) and others times for much less.
I would not have touched that coin. Did you notice the amount of toning / corrosion ? This will not get anything close to 69 grade if you re-grade.
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