I think in 2008 the focus was on the financial crisis and in 2011 we having losing faith in all paper currencies. So I don't expect a 2008 style crass in the precisions metals.
If you buy diamonds from your local jeweller (or heaven forbid one of those dodgy cut price jewellers) then yes - prices will crash hard. Diamonds are a specialty thing and if you are looking at them for investment/security you need to talk to a reputable dealer and look more at investment quality diamonds not jewellery. It's a little like saying buy gold to secure your wealth. We all know on here there is a difference between a beautiful piece of gold plated or lower carat art and a brick of gold. The gold plated artwork will look a lot more beautiful to your average joe (or joanne) and could cost as much or more than the brick of gold (if you doubt this just go into a mass market jeweller and see the $1000+ gold and diamond necklace, "valued" at more than they are selling it for, being fawned over by customers who think it's a bargain but in reality cost the manafacturer only a few hundred to make). One looks fantastic on display or around a beautiful ladies neck but we all know which will holds it's value when push comes to shove. If you are buying any assets (including PMs) for hard economic times - you cannot just buy anything at any time. Price does matter but it is not the only thing. Two identical assets that look the same will behave completely differently depending on the scenario. Yes - I think holding/diversifying into some diamonds can be a wise move. Only though, if they are purchased with the advice of an excellent dealer who specializes in investment grade diamonds. There again - there are a lot of other "hard" assets that I diversify/invest in. Some are for SHTF scenarios, some are for trading, some are just because I like them. All are bought with specific goals of how to get into and at what price, how to store or structure, how they are going to create "wealth" for me and when/how I am going to sell them. You need to be able to answer all of these questions before you leap in. Remember - buying is the easy part! malachii
I think PMs are the easiest and most convertable though. I would never buy diamonds - they are a big con, totally overvalued! You try taking a diamond ring back to a jewellers to sell back to them - they dont want it and will only pay you a pittance of its original price - the only thing valuable in the ring is the gold! The fact is diamonds are common and their price has been kept artificially high. What else can you trade so easily? Most food does not keep, realestate is too high at the moment and will be impossible to sell when prices crash (but it will be a good time to buy then!). The only other thing I can think of at the moment to invest in is to become more self sufficient - put money into solar panels on your roof, water tanks , fruit trees and a vegetable garden (I have just done this!). Saying all this though some money in the bank may not be a bad thing - I still think Australia will fair better than Europe and the USA and our banks may be OK compared to many overseas banks which will be effected. The money could devalue but there may be buying opportunities. When Greece defaults (and everyone agrees it will eventually) there is going to be a domino effect on countries and banks world wide. There seems to be an air of pessimism about silver and I dont know why, probably because of the fall in May. It has been undervalued for a long time and its use as a store of wealth is rising world wide - I dont think the price can drop substantially because there are too many people out there wanting to buy it! But I also dont believe it is going to skyrocket to 100s of dollars - more like just under $100.
This is the point I was making in post #43. Investment grade diamonds are not common. There is a big difference between investment grade diamonds and jewellery diamonds just like there is a big difference in Australian Pennies. The difference between a 1929, a 1930 and a 1931 penny is more than just 12 months. A 1929 in perfect condition is still not worth as much as a 1930 in average condition by a large amount. If you don't know the difference or know someone trustworthy who does - DON'T BUY!!! Many things - you just need to do some research, talk to some people who have been through similar scenarios to what you are planning for. Find some that does - honey NEVER goes out of date and is extremely tradable no matter what the economic conditions are (according to a good Argentinian friend who was in Argentina during their meltdown). Not going down this road again other than to say I don't agree with your generalisation. Fantastic ideas but don't limit yourself to these! This last paragraph is great. I find myself here so often and it doesn't work. I have owned so many investments that "I don't think the price can drop substantially" but have and have never recovered. If you don't know why there is an air of pessimism - find out. Talk to people. Research. Don't invest until you know why. It may be irrational but it may also be something you weren't aware of. If something is undervalued for a long time there is a reason and it may be a very good one. Cheap does not mean good value! The price of silver is up almost 100% in the last 12 months - why should it go higher? There are many people trying to buy silver and yet the price has gone down 30% since April/May. Was this an over reaction or was there a bubble? What will you do if the price stays where it is for 10 years? It has before so why will this time be any different? I'm not saying it will or wont. I am saying that these are questions that you need to answer. malachii
That's it I'm going to buy 10 jars of Manuka honey Already got like 5 stacked at home but can never be too much!
Why not try a whole bee hive? A mate of mine just got permission from his body corporate to keep a couple on top of the high rise he lives in in Carlton. malachii
I think at least one of my family members is allergic to bees, not too sure but I recall an episode like 10 years ago when we lived in a house. Anyway I'm sure my current building won't allow it, they don't even allow laundry on the balcony let alone a freakin bee hive lol.
Investing in specialty items like diamonds. other gems and art is fraught with danger. Even Argyle diamonds are not all equal. For the average bloke, PM and selected real estate is the way. Neither will go to zero when the SHTF, unlike (paper) dollars shares or bonds. Talk of South Africa, how did the paper currency do over 1985-present (2Rand = 1AU$ - 7Rand=1AU$). Real estate was better but the real winner in Rand terms (gold - 1oz was R240 now R12000).
Great post Malachii! I agree with you on all points - already have two beehives and stockpiling honey - it is the one food which never goes off! ( mine is organic too!) Agree - diamonds is a specialist field requiring specialist advice, dont go buying diamonds from a jeweller and think you have an invesment. I personally think they are overvalued. I have done a massive amount of research and cannot see why silver should fall below $30 but I am not saying that it wont (nothing in this world is certain!). Everyone has to do their own research and come to their own conclusions. Even if silver does not reach the highs we would like it to it 'may' hold value better than other investments. If you are really worried about the volatility of silver then you would be better off buying gold but in the end it is a personal choice! It is not just a case of making investments to make money, I think we all just want to protect ourselves from losing everything and it is better to be prepared for a rocky road ahead than just sit and think everything is just going to keep rolling along as normal for ever and a day. - I wonder if the price of honey will skyrocket?
You could also re-word that to say they raised margin requirements several times on silver in an attempt to knock it down and despite this it's back to March levels because demand is still strong. So it's a question of how you look at things.
I know - completely off topic for this forum BUT I LOVE BEES, HONEY and BEESWAX!! Honey ticks all the boxes for me. - I love the stuff - It stores forever - The bees make it with very little input from me (very passive investment) - It's healthy - It's medicinal - It's by-products are so useful - It is always easily re sellable (as are it's by products) - Did I mention I love the stuff!! Don't know if the price will ever skyrocket - the cheap chinese import crap keeps the price down but I'll be stoked if it does - I've got almost 4 tonne (yep thats right, 4 tonne) in the shed from a previous business venture that went sour (boom boom). NO, not really - it's really left over from winding up the family apiary business last year. Let me know if you want a cheap jar or two and I'll see what I can do. malachii
Something natural you can eat is a lot more exciting than precious metals, I'll give you that. Precious metals only excite me in finished products.
seriously off topic ............. Agree Malachi - I love bees and honey even though I found out I got a serious allergy it wont stop me! I use honey instead of sugar now in everything as it is healthier. Even started planting more flowering bushes just for the bees! Using bees wax to make polish and face creams - many uses. Lots of problems world wide with bee diseases but so far Australia better positioned than most because of its isolation. Curious similarity between the word money and honey ? I wonder if the ancients used honey to barter! We could trade honey for silver coins -
Yes entirely offtopic now LOL but I have to agree with your sentiments! I hate sweet stuff in general (prefer dark choc over milk choc for example) but I love honey. It's healthy, tasty, looks nice, smooth, did I mention tasty, tasty and of course, tasty. Like you I avoid any sugar or sugar substitutes like sorbitol if I can manage it. Rather use a teaspoon of honey or go without the sugar Damn got curious and looked for honey history on wikipedia, found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#In_history.2C_culture.2C_and_folklore Doesn't seem like it was used for currency but definitely considered and used a fair bit either for cooking or as an 'elixir of immortality' <- lol
Silver is 30 times less precious than Gold but 12 months ago it was 70 times so I do think it's 'in the same league' Silver is speculative and risky,Gold is stable and safe.They are nothing like each other. - do agree with you Why does the market value gold 30 time more than silver if they are similar. - because of history and was based on natural availability (typically 1:16). The rarer the element the higher the price - agree? It annoys me when people put them in the same basket. - why not? If you do some reasearch you will be shocked to find Gold is far more abundant than Silver. Also of the known historical supply,95% of Silver is consumed compared to 5% for Gold (95% is available today in Bullion,Jewelary,etc In a SHTF situation people will eventually go for the safety of gold and flee the speculative nature of silver. - disagree - time will tell but why not go on current investor interest? Compare Gold to Silver percentage gains in the last 12 months - I don't see lack of interest in the speculative nature of silver
Has anyone invested in cigarretes? As in bought alot overseas or somewhere in Australia and then sell them where they are more expensive to buy than from where you bought them? And to AG: 95% of silver is consumed... i highly doubt the number is that high most likely more around 60% - 70% is consumed in industry, also take into account the amount of scrap silver that is recycled every year
Ag said Silver is actually rarer than gold This is true for available metal already mined because gold has been hoarded and still remains in vaults whereas silver has been used and lost and not mined to the same extent. What I would like to know, how do all the metals compare with each other in price and amount available . There is a chart in Wikepedia for relative abundance in the ground http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_metal but this does not reflect the amount mined or available above ground at this moment in time. From the coin community forum last May - one person said: An old wives tale says that au should be worth 16 times as much as ag, because ag is 16 times as plentiful. If you believe such nonsense, you better be dumping both ag and au. Consider this: Quote: If you think gold is rare, think about platinum for a minute. You could fit all the platinum ever mined into a racquetball court. The stuff is 30 times rarer than gold in nature. And it's a real headache to mine. It takes 12 million tons of raw ore to produce a single ounce of this metal. Using natural rarity, pt should be about $45,000 an ounce, instead of $1800. Not only is pt far rarer than au, it is primarily an industrial metal, and can do things that are impossible to do with gold. For example, it barely turns color at temperatures that make gold a puddle. This person goes on to say that the spot price is all about supply and demand not rarity. This does not make sense either as the demand for gold is not currently 40 x that of silver? If the spot price does not depend on rarity or demand it must be based on some arbitrary human perception? Maybe we should be buying platinum!
I don't feel that there is a coming fall in silver. Though with all the psychopathic billionaires calling the shots, I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop to $20 briefly (I doubt it though) Don't really care if there is a dip, as I wont be selling then...In fact I'll be happy so I can buy more. p.s I don't use the term correction in relation to silver as it's already undervalued
I wrote the above response from work while fending of all manner of SHTF stuff - poorly written and didn't explain myself correctly... 95% of the estimated silver since day dot is no longer accountable, be that in land fill or private hands. Based that 1% of investors hold PM's, and of those 5% hold Silver,there is minimal amount 'stacked' Perhaps the figure isn't 95% but 94% with alot of decimals - point being it's well over 70% - Silver has been in deficit mining for more than 55 years, scrap silver has aided in reducing the difference in supply to demand but not filling the shortage. As energy cost increases the recycling decreases unless economical with a higher spot. Ill try and find some graphs (unless some else has them handy) showing this deficit compared to time...funny thing is its parabolic, same as the Silver price,same as the mine supply(negative gradient),same as investment interest,etc... Goldpanner has save me a job Was going to post on platinum (as I've done elsewhere) as the 'better pick' compared to Gold. Look - put it this way - what makes something it's value? supply,demand and availability - simple 101 investment - what fits this formula...all PM's do but IMHO some much better than others - I choose to hold those two - one I can buy cheap and the other almost always at spot or below...
