Sooner or later people will have accept the fact that $5/spot is the cost of having a legal tender physical silver 1oz. Maybe...lol.
I should probably said in Australia. Because currently, to get a brand new, legal tender, 1oz silver from a dealer in Australia, that would be $5/spot (not taking consideration of volume break obviously). This I think has to be perceived as the lowest price point for a legal tender in Australia. Hence imperfection would bound to exist and should be accepted as a part of a deal. And for me, I see this price point as the price I have to pay if I want to get 1oz 999 legal tender. Price point in Australia and USA/Europe is different. $5 over spot, is just about as low as you can get from a dealer, in Australia.
Just received mine. Some coins look like they've been through a blender. 3 tubes total, 2 had broken seals, one had its guts spilling out. From this tube, all 25 coins were scratched up. Here is a still image taken from the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezUUt7tgrE#t=1m52s
I must admit, those crocodiles looked damaged. If that's the condition they come in then we've been ripped off. The prices in Australia are MORE than the US. We can buy eagles cheaper than crocs from a dealer. And eagles are much better quality. Hmm... pros and cons starting to look 50/50 now. Why do we get ripped off in Australia???
Just a statistical / logic based comment here: Do people only do that for these crocodile coins? In case no, why does Provident only puts the comment in this particular coin case? This same logic also applies to Perth Mint. If a producer delivers a product that is perceived by customers as below standard, why would the producer do that bad job only on that specific product? Other coins don't show this, the crocodile coin does. Did they use different people/equipment/settings for them? Some have received these coins in good condition, others in a bad condition, being the most recent. Fat Freddy states that the relief of this particular coin is extremely shallow. If that is true, then there must have been changed something at the production (lower pressure when hitting the blancs). It may, or may not be related. About what iluvbeanz says now, if one can assume that Perth Mint ships sealed tubes, then a broken such original seal means that there has been a third party between the Mint and the buyer. One that opened the tubes, and did whatever with the coins, causing the damage. It may be a story aside of the one of this topic. So instead of throwing it all on one pile, it would help if each experience-poster provides where he ordered the coins, and when.
Which dealer sell ASE cheaper than Crocs? Are you sure? Crocs was priced to compete with ASE. Just about everything is more expensive in AUstralia...wages is higher etc etc.
That's not acceptable as a dealer and we do not accept your comments as a high profile dealer! Folk who buy coins expect a decent coin. Dealers should have the capacity to send unacceptable coins back to Perth. Bullion coins that you folk (Dealers) sell come with a hefty premium and folk should and do expect quality for a premium. If you accept crap coins from Perth, that is up-to you but the market does not want them. You should send them back to Perth for their melting pot! H
I'm not going to post a list of the rip offs. I could get in trouble for defamation. I am honest so go look around. As for you reason of business cost, what a BS reason! As a percentage difference of the premium, we can see it's way way way over. How would you like to be pay 50% or DOUBLE or more for something? Well we are seeing that here. We are getting RIPPED OFF!
When I bought my crocs, I didn't expect them to be MS70's. However I did expect them to be uncirculated as they should be, but what I got were crocs in circulated condition.
Not sure what's unacceptable about me agreeing with an end consumer that these are bullion coins. I stand by my earlier comments about the quality of the Crocodile coins I have personally handled. Two culls out of thousands. Note the word cull - they were not sold to customers. I have not seen coins of the low quality iluvbeanz has received in what we have handled - however the tubes do have a large air gap, and depending on how the rounds are treated in post-dealer shipping, it would be easy to see how they could arrive in that condition if they've been jostled and shaken. The issues with the air space in the tubes and the poor adhesion on some of the security strips HAS been passed onto the mint. And they were already aware of similar feedback when I spoke with the relevant manager on Friday on the issue. The commercial bullion grade comment is direct from the Perth Mint - they are what they are, "commercial" strikes (a similar term in the US would be a business strike), they have been cranked out as bullion coins that are NOT mean to replicate the quality you would find with a Koala or Kookaburra. People wanted a lower priced legal tender round. It was forthcoming. With the learnings of pushing out a million coins of a new minting approach and packaging format (that sold out to dealers in 19 days - that's a pretty fast clip), there will be learnings that will see the next issue in this form factor improved. A tube redesign has already been suggested as likely.
GP, this is heading south pretty quick. Rounds that are 99c above spot like the Pegasus are far superior! The truth is we are getting ripped off with third rate over priced inferior product, I'm going buy some capsules and pop the lid on a tube or two. The fact that a Prestigious Mint like Perth Mint... I mean it's THE ACTUAL PERTH MINT, the one and only... and they are producing a product like damaged coins is more than disappointing. I know dealers are RAKING IT IN by charging premiums that are FAR MORE not a little than all the way in AMERICA. This is not a debate. A debate has opposition, this doesn't have any defense.
We just want bullion coins that are decent! We are sick of the BS. We are sick of having to worry about purchasing Proof or bullion coins with milk or other anomalies. We pay decent money we want decent products. WE WANT QUALITY NOT QUANTITY! Are you dealers and Mints so brain-dead that you don't hear us! Take some fing stress off your workers and designers...slow down and...produce quality not quantity! H
Can only respond with based on my experience - the boxes I've received shipped straight from the mint have not contained coins like that. There is an issue with tube air spacing, so the rattling that coins experience after leaving the mint is likely what's causing issues unless there's been shifts (the mint is running triple shifts at the moment) where there's been QC issues that I haven't encountered with the coins I or my staff have handled. The air space issue would actually explain the remarks at Provident's website - ship the coins 16,000km and then a few thousand more domestically within the US, and if there's the potential for coins to be damaged in tubes in transit, there's plenty of opportunity for it to happen. Not even going to bother entering the argument on pricing in Australia. Last I checked (and Melbourne SS meeting members can attest to this) I drive a 14yo car - it's the scrap merchants that "rake it in" in the Australian bullion scene.
I see people have higher expectation for the Crocs. The are meant as Low premium bullion coins. Crocs are the first one to test the market, I believe an improvement will follow later.
Last I checked I didn't work at the mint - all I and other dealers can do can do is pass back feedback which is done regularly. Pretty sure that they need to balance such needs against those of people that just want quantity.
Seems like my point is being ignored. Percentage of premium in Australia is simply outrageous. [RANT ON] WHY ARE WE PAYING SO MUCH MORE IN AUSTRALIA THAN THE US? [RANT OFF] No dodging. Is it up to the dealers? Gouging? Should we be complaining to the Perth Mint? Seems like this is an issue that is going to get a lot more attention. Over charging us as Aussie for a Aussie minted product. That's UNAUSTRALIAN mate.
We as consumers don't really give a rat's arse about the transport issues! If Perth and you guys accept such issues then you are responsible for negative feedback! You need to say to Perth that their coin tubes and their shipping methods do not conform with your customers expectations. You as a dealer are not responsible! But you have a responsibility to let Perth know that we do not accept crap coin packaging. Ron should already know that their trial coins have packaging problems. As I said a month ago, the coins rub and although some folk would like to class bullion as UNC junk; we the consumer are paying top dollar for BS. We may as well buy bars. Perth have reputation and dealers have a rep that has been forged with Perth! If you screw-over the small folk you will spread shite all-over your selves. This is so easy to fix! Produce packaging that works and produce quality bullion products and get a rep as the best mint in the world and dealers that are the best. Too often in this world folk say it's all too hard..But it's just as easy to do a good job as a poor if a bloke has time! (Managers need to give folk time) H
