World Money Fair 2012 Black Dragon

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xrayspecs

New Member
Saw this posted on Euro Collections today - seems to be getting a lot of buzz and is already sold out at Perth. Price seems reasonable as well. I'm liking the look of it. What are your thoughts?

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Source: http://www.eurocollections.com/store/product.asp?id=6897
 
My thoughts are that it is a brilliant buy, I don't care what all these crybabies have to say either because they're wrong - history should prove that.

The reality is that with a mintage that low it was always going to appreciate in value, and will continue to do so.
The high relief dragon that is coming is in the same boat, I'll be loading up on them but then my numi (semi) buying is done until we get the snakes.
 
I wouldnt waste my money on these. You say the mintage of 5,000 will make this appreciate? LOL. Take a look at the rectangle set so far.

I think atleast half maybe even three qtrs of Perth mint coins are crap and overpriced. I doubt you will get $100 for these in a few mths. Maybe $85


Scorp
 
Scorpion75 said:
I wouldnt waste my money on these. You say the mintage of 5,000 will make this appreciate? LOL. Take a look at the rectangle set so far.

I think atleast half maybe even three qtrs of Perth mint coins are crap and overpriced. I doubt you will get $100 for these in a few mths. Maybe $85


Scorp
Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion they'll be worth over $200 in a few months without issue.
I didn't touch the rectangle "coins" by the way, same can be said for the gilded dragons. You're always going to get a big buzz at the start followed by a fizzle out period, but come the release of the next lunar series things pick up in a big way.
 
I hope your right for your sake but I highly doubt it. The rect set has a mintage of 2500 and the 4 coin set was 1500. Going by your mintage analogy, the rect set should be worth $700-$800 and the 4 coin maybe around $900. Mintage isnt the be all and end all. Oh yeah although the original red coloured proof coins have 10000 mintage, these will always be worth more than these grey ones IMHO.

We will see.

I believe plain bars are the best way to increase your position. 3 oz for every PM rip off. Goodluck getting triple your purchase price.


Scorp
 
This reminds me of the clownfish saga.

Personally I've been taking risk in buying and flipping Perth Mint dragons and while it's been profitable I'm out (have been for 2 months).

There are far too many dragons and varieties and these sets are all being flooded on the market.

There might be a limited mintage but there is no scarcity at all.

I have 5000 mintage Perth Mint coins but they don't sell very well especially when the demand is like 50 people in the whole world.

Good luck with your purchase roman and I hope it goes well for you but I agree with Scorp that some of Perth Mint's releases are purely marketing gimmicks not worth the RRP at all.
 
Guys don't forget that there are 20,000 other sets of 9 coins which really makes for a total of 25,000 grey/black coins.

Personally I'm happy to have my rect set and 4 coin set sitting in the bank vault. If they sit there for 5yrs I dont care. If Silver is grasped by double the amount of people in the future, I think i'll do better with these coin sets with a 2,500 and 1,500 mintage. The key is an increase in collectors. Atleast the rect coins are some what unique compared to a coloured round.


Scorp
 
Mintage is not everything, of course, but it's a water dragon and that means something to some people. It is also needed if you're building a complete set. The rectangle set is exempt from that, it's an offshoot cash-in attempt just like the baby dragon was.
The original coloured coin (the red one) will command a decent premium because it is a proof, whereas the water dragon is not. They both have bright futures however, because they're dragons.


I think it's widely accepted that when it comes to lunars, Dragons are the most popular, so if you have the ability to store and forget what you buy then you're golden. Having said that I would certainly advise people spend the bulk of their hard earned on bullion, cheap bullion at that. I have always been fond of the 1oz buffalo round for example.

These dragon purchases are nothing but a buy and store investment for me, I think if history is any indication all lunar purchases should be.
 
Scorpion75 said:
Guys don't forget that there are 20,000 other sets of 9 coins which really makes for a total of 25,000 grey/black coins.

Personally I'm happy to have my rect set and 4 coin set sitting in the bank vault. If they sit there for 5yrs I dont care. If Silver is grasped by double the amount of people in the future, I think i'll do better with these coin sets with a 2,500 and 1,500 mintage. The key is an increase in collectors. Atleast the rect coins are some what unique compared to a coloured round.


Scorp
Click to expand...

If you had bought and flipped most of the dragons you would have made a small or sometimes huge profit but I think if held till the next lunar series values can only really increase unless silver tanks. The issue I see with the rectangle set is that it is not Australian legal tender like all the other releases which is why I stayed away from it. For me personally the beijing coin expo set is much more appealing 2,888 mintage and much better presented than the berlin expo coin but if I can't flip the berlin in one 10 day listing on ebay will be put away till the next lunar series and sold hopefully for a whole lot more.
 
Scorpion75 said:
I hope your right for your sake but I highly doubt it. The rect set has a mintage of 2500 and the 4 coin set was 1500. Going by your mintage analogy, the rect set should be worth $700-$800 and the 4 coin maybe around $900. Mintage isnt the be all and end all. Oh yeah although the original red coloured proof coins have 10000 mintage, these will always be worth more than these grey ones IMHO.

We will see.

I believe plain bars are the best way to increase your position. 3 oz for every PM rip off. Goodluck getting triple your purchase price.


Scorp
Click to expand...
Rectangle sets are not part of the Australian lunar series so that is why they suck~! IMHO of course
 
thatguy said:
Scorpion75 said:
I hope your right for your sake but I highly doubt it. The rect set has a mintage of 2500 and the 4 coin set was 1500. Going by your mintage analogy, the rect set should be worth $700-$800 and the 4 coin maybe around $900. Mintage isnt the be all and end all. Oh yeah although the original red coloured proof coins have 10000 mintage, these will always be worth more than these grey ones IMHO.

We will see.

I believe plain bars are the best way to increase your position. 3 oz for every PM rip off. Goodluck getting triple your purchase price.


Scorp
Click to expand...
Rectangle sets are not part of the lunar series Australian lunar series so that is why they suck~! IMHO of course
Click to expand...

exactly right, not an opinion but rather, fact.
 
fishball said:
This reminds me of the clownfish saga.

Personally I've been taking risk in buying and flipping Perth Mint dragons and while it's been profitable I'm out (have been for 2 months).

There are far too many dragons and varieties and these sets are all being flooded on the market.

There might be a limited mintage but there is no scarcity at all.

I have 5000 mintage Perth Mint coins but they don't sell very well especially when the demand is like 50 people in the whole world.

Good luck with your purchase roman and I hope it goes well for you but I agree with Scorp that some of Perth Mint's releases are purely marketing gimmicks not worth the RRP at all.
Click to expand...


Don't buy with the sole intention of flipping, that's a stupid way of investing. You need to wait for the coins to mature, just like a fine wine.
 
Anything besides the plain bullion,proof,gilded,original coloured,rect and 4 coin set are a cash in attempt IMHO. Anything more than what they had previously minted for past lunars is a massive cash in attempt.

They should of stuck to my listed ones above.

They would of been better off creating a b/proof silver set with a kook,koala,kangaroo,plat,croc and emu. I'm sure ozzies and definately o/s collectors would do back flips to snap them up.

They have killed the dragon for the short/med term. PM need new ideas.


Scorp
 
Oh believe me I've got plenty of Perth Mint coins which I didn't flip, definitely not my choice either. I can't sell them without copping a loss from the purchase price.

I've just been burnt enough times to understand that Perth Mint pumps out a lot of coins, some of which will end up as worthless (well spot maybe).

For the dragons I flipped and pocketed a tidy profit which is now invested into other things.

I saw an opportunity and took it, it wasn't an 'investment' for me. I don't see much potential in most of the dragons Perth Mint released (I kept the 3 coin set, the non-colored proof and the gilded as long term holds as I see they are good).

Many people were harping on how the 9 coin set would be awesome when Chinese new year came around. Well guess what? It wasn't.

Anything that wasn't part of the original lunar series (gilded, 3 coin, proof, bullion) are imo, gimmicks created to cash-in on the hype.

I do wish you luck for your dragon investment but I'm just here to voice my opinions, if I am wrong then so be it and congratulations to you :).
 
It's ok if you think the rect set sucks. I think they look better than a lot of the round coins and are struck better. In Proof. Also displays better than most. Atleast there isnt 20k.50k or more of them floating around. They are unique compared to most silver coins. In the future dont you think that more than 2,500 people around the world will want one? I think there will be. I like my odds.

It does look good on a shelf or desk.

See how we have all gone when the next dragons are due.


Scorp
 
fishball said:
Oh believe me I've got plenty of Perth Mint coins which I didn't flip, definitely not my choice either. I can't sell them without copping a loss from the purchase price.

I've just been burnt enough times to understand that Perth Mint pumps out a lot of coins, some of which will end up as worthless (well spot maybe).

For the dragons I flipped and pocketed a tidy profit which is now invested into other things.

I saw an opportunity and took it, it wasn't an 'investment' for me. I don't see much potential in most of the dragons Perth Mint released (I kept the 3 coin set, the non-colored proof and the gilded as long term holds as I see they are good).

Many people were harping on how the 9 coin set would be awesome when Chinese new year came around. Well guess what? It wasn't.

Anything that wasn't part of the original lunar series (gilded, 3 coin, proof, bullion) are imo, gimmicks created to cash-in on the hype.

I do wish you luck for your dragon investment but I'm just here to voice my opinions, if I am wrong then so be it and congratulations to you :).
Click to expand...

I hear ya and agree, I agree with Scorpion75 to an extent too because i am primarily buying bullion with the pittance that I have. We only differ with the water dragon which i feel is something to hold on to as well.
 
I am waiting for the price to drop on these, What was the perth mint selling them for, it was about $99 wasn't it?

I have seen them offered at nearly twice that, I don't mind giving someone a bit of profit for their efforts but paying $200 after a week or so of release?! I can see why you would want to ask for so much but I can see them dropping down, in increments to about $130, and then I might look at getting one for the collection.

$200 is not its value as a collectable, it is due to a short term scarcity and people worried they have missed out. we saw the same thing with the bullion dragons. When the price drops, the coin is not less collectable, just more available.

If the only people who bought the dragon were people who wanted a black dragon for their set then the entire mintage would be in the hands of collectors and the price would be whatever was required to prise the dragons from their hands.

But I suspect many ended up in the hands of dealers and speculators, who don't want to hold onto them for ever, they will try for the massive prices and trickle them onto the market, but once the early birds have caught the worm they will come down in price and many more will be available.

The trouble with the black dragon is, if I don't get one, so what? I already have a red one, and I can get a yellow one and a blue one if I want, or I can get the black dragon as part of the Chinese set, or part of the Australian set.

A quick trawl through the McDonald's price guide will show quite a few series which are being sold for less than the issue price.
 
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