Why so difficult?

[markcoinoz]

i wasnt having a go, i was simply stating that as far as i know the silver i am sold by a dealer could be lead that has been painted. i havnt been in the game long enough to know what a real bar feels like and like you said i should not get in the "bullion" game because i dont have the required skills that you obviously have.
on anouther note i now know why most people are not interested in buying gold and silver but prefer shares and property that has governing bodies in place to protect you from obvious fraud.
there is no such protection with regards to bullion dealers as far as i know and i am a newby to stacking
bottom line is i hear alot of whinging on this site about family members rolling their eyes at you when you discuss stacking and MSM not promoting it or downright demonising it. fact is you have just gone out of your way to tell me not to stack as i dont know how to tell the differnece between real and fake bars when i hold it
just saying

Hate to say it mate.

You are speaking absolute Crap.

Shares???? Governing Bodies???
Are you serious?

Have been in the sharemarket game since 85'.
No longer thank goodness.

The sharemarket is one big Ponzi scheme where Corporate Governance is far from amitable.
Company Directors have been fleecing the small shareholders for years through dilution.
What has ASIC done? Investigate what LIC's are and you might start to realise that just perhaps
things are not as they appear to be. I won't go into detail. You can do the research for yourself.

Ask yourself!! How safe is your Super? If it is not a SMSF, I would be very worried.

Why do you think more people are moving away from property especially if things are not
looking too rosy on the Global front? Is Australia going to continue to be safe while the rest
of the world is on the potential cusp of currency wars like we have never seen before?

You have more chance of winning Lotto than getting a "Fake" from a reputable dealer.

Your questioning should be more concerned about the type of Stacker you intend to be.
What are you going to collect? Bars? Coins? Both? Which Brand? How much do you want to invest?
Where do plan on storing it?

Who are your closest Bullion Dealers? What is their reputation? Find out.
What storage facilities do they have in place? Go visit them.

In otherwords do "DUE DILIGENCE" first.

My apology if I sound a bit annoyed.

After sifting through this entire thread with that many excellent responses from
alot of the regulars to yours and other new member's questions, its very simple.

If you cannot trust your own shadow, forget it.
Your in the wrong game.

Eureka Moments, I'm going to have an IR now after my venting.

Cheers markcoinoz

 

[anonmiss]

I have read the thread and I have no idea what dealer you have had the unfortunate experiance of dealing with but like so many have said befor its not that hard.
I HAVE NEVER BEEN IGNORED WHEN I HAVE DELT WITH ANY OF THE SITE SPONSORS.
So far in my year and a bit of stacking I have purchaced from no less than five site sponsors, all have responded to emails, emailed confirmation of orders, provided recipts and gone above and beyond when I have asked for special requests such as holding orders so as to combine shipping and save a little fiat.
My question is if hundredes of stackers here are able to trade on a daily bases without issue what are YOU doing to make it so hard???

 

[renovator]

Well named thread this.

+1

:lol: +2

 

[serial]

"If you cannot trust your own shadow, forget it.
Your in the wrong game."
no i dont trust anyone when it comes to my money
nice that you feel so strongly on the subject , i dont disagree with you about shares, but in the eyes of the general public it is safer than gold/silver
i think you missed the point i tried to make about how on one hand i have been told to blindly trust bullion dealers with my hard earned
but on the other hand have seen many many threads regarding fake bullion doing the rounds that even the dealers have difficulty with identifying as fake
i have been told if i cant tell the differnece between real and fake when handling a bar tha i should stay out of the bullion game
and have even been provided with an example of how someone bought a fake from a dealer and only got his $$$ back because he recognised it as a fake and took it back.
so in other words he didnt trust the dealer and tested it himself

 

[spannermonkey]

"If you cannot trust your own shadow, forget it.
Your in the wrong game."
no i dont trust anyone when it comes to my money
nice that you feel so strongly on the subject , i dont disagree with you about shares, but in the eyes of the general public it is safer than gold/silver
i think you missed the point i tried to make about how on one hand i have been told to blindly trust bullion dealers with my hard earned
but on the other hand have seen many many threads regarding fake bullion doing the rounds that even the dealers have difficulty with identifying as fake
i have been told if i cant tell the differnece between real and fake when handling a bar tha i should stay out of the bullion game
and have even been provided with an example of how someone bought a fake from a dealer and only got his $$$ back because he recognised it as a fake and took it back.
so in other words he didnt trust the dealer and tested it himself

NO I trusted that dealer upto that point
I went home & did some homework on a very rare coin
Only to find out it was a fake
I than had it tested & confirmed before I went back & told him , he than tested it in front of me
It was a very rare gold Panda that was slabbed & graded

 

[XB]

@ serial I think the points most are trying to make are

1. Research - some of the questions you and others have asked in this thread are easily answered by searching this forum or via google, and

2. Trust the dealers on this forum - they DO NOT knowingly sell fake bars as to do so would be a crime, would open them to civil liability, and most of all would destroy their reputation instantly.

Most (probably all) dealers test and examine bars to ensure authenticity, and each sale they make is their entire reputation on the line.

Now do fake bars or coins occur - sure and every now and then one may slip through but the point spannermonkey was making (I think) is that as soon as he had doubts he went back to the dealer who didn't just dismiss his concerns but rather tested the coin and once it was established it was a fake he refunded spanner's hard-earned. No ifs, buts or maybes.

Is it likely that you would get a fake bar from a dealer - no.

 

[renovator]

I think hes got paralysis by analysis

 

[Chillidog]

I have tried to buy a good fake (one that is not easily recognized in seconds in the hand) for over two years. Just to cut in half and post the pictures.
Even offered people posting that its a fake the silver value.
Still trying still nothing.
There are many fakes on eBay but at first glance. They don't look the same.
Go look at some panda fakes. The panda forum shoots them down pretty fast.
If you see some thing that looks Suss keep looking as the other faults start to show up quickly.
If you do get a fake I want to buy it!

 

[Guest]

Charlief1, just pop into gold stackers in the CBD seeing as your in Melbourne. I'm sure your queries will be better answered in person.

 

[Steve19800]

Thanks goldpelican,
There are several silver coin/bar brands e.g. PAMP, Scottsdale, PM, SBA, etc. 10 oz Regal Metals Cast Silver Bar is made of pure silver so is 10 oz Perth Mint Cast Silver Bar. Why the price is different?
If the buyer want to sell it in the future, does the potential buyer even care about the brand?

Regarding the closed market,
PM 10 oz closed at $329.90 while GS at $341.90. Is it possible to get the PM price? What silver/gold manufactured by GS?

Different Brand Different Prices. Just like when you buy a Homebrand Products. They are still manufactured by the well known company, but different prices. You'll be surprised who made them.

If you still new to stacking precious metal, I suggest to start reading, Bullion Baron guide/blog is a good start.

GoldStackers is an authorised dealers for a couple different brands.

Thanks for the reply and suggestion.
Are they made only by one company?

Talking about the brand, is PM is a Gucci and say Regal is walmart but silver is silver, how far people concern about the brand compare to the content? It is 10 oz of silver right not 10 oz of Gucci for example

 

[Steve19800]

If you are referring as why the price of GS has changed/ updated in the last 12hr, its because worldwide precious metal market is closed.

With perth mint, if you buy directly, the postage will be close to $50 and there is no guarantee when your order is fulfilled. Since you are in Melbourne, you can pick up from GS office.

You mean $50 including the insurance or? I thought the shipping is close to $17 per kg + 1-2% of optional insurance. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[serial]

I have tried to buy a good fake (one that is not easily recognized in seconds in the hand) for over two years. Just to cut in half and post the pictures.
Even offered people posting that its a fake the silver value.
Still trying still nothing.
There are many fakes on eBay but at first glance. They don't look the same.
Go look at some panda fakes. The panda forum shoots them down pretty fast.
If you see some thing that looks Suss keep looking as the other faults start to show up quickly.
If you do get a fake I want to buy it!

i got a fake gold year of the dragon 1/10 coin and 1875 us trade dollar. i keep the trade dollar in my pocket as a reminder to never trust anyone one but myself (and ocasionally my own shadow )
they didnt cost me anything as the owners of them got tricked themselves and paid retail for them. they were happy to see the back of them
what worries me the most is when people are willing to out lay say $100 to make a professional fake like a 1kg bar that requires a $10k machine to identify as a fake that even dealers have trouble with and why because the risk/reward ratio encourages them to
the point i was trying to make is that this and this alone is enough to scare most people off from stacking
and attitudes like the one shown to me dont help assure them
as for mainstream investment i am not saying that ASIC is anything but a toothless lion(my partner has seen $8k in shares go down to $2k in 4 years) but it is there and people love to have a warm blanket wraped around them even if it doesnt help
its is the illusion of risk that damages the PM industry and the government needs to do something about it
that is the point i am trying to make and that you are missing i think

as for dealers, so far in the short period i have been in PM i have had a bad expirence and a good one both with reputable dalers all whilst asking for advice and investion on the advice given.
one outright lied to me (and this forum set me straight thankyou all) the other helped me and i am forever thankful to him
but thats a 50% hit ratio, but i figure this is WA so small market leads to that

 

[Bryce]

Where would I buy silver granules from and what is the current rate?

 

[Chillidog]

I have tried to buy a good fake (one that is not easily recognized in seconds in the hand) for over two years. Just to cut in half and post the pictures.
Even offered people posting that its a fake the silver value.
Still trying still nothing.
There are many fakes on eBay but at first glance. They don't look the same.
Go look at some panda fakes. The panda forum shoots them down pretty fast.
If you see some thing that looks Suss keep looking as the other faults start to show up quickly.
If you do get a fake I want to buy it!

i got a fake gold year of the dragon 1/10 coin and 1875 us trade dollar. i keep the trade dollar in my pocket as a reminder to never trust anyone one but myself (and ocasionally my own shadow )
they didnt cost me anything as the owners of them got tricked themselves and paid retail for them. they were happy to see the back of them
what worries me the most is when people are willing to out lay say $100 to make a professional fake like a 1kg bar that requires a $10k machine to identify as a fake that even dealers have trouble with and why because the risk/reward ratio encourages them to
the point i was trying to make is that this and this alone is enough to scare most people off from stacking
and attitudes like the one shown to me dont help assure them
as for mainstream investment i am not saying that ASIC is anything but a toothless lion(my partner has seen $8k in shares go down to $2k in 4 years) but it is there and people love to have a warm blanket wraped around them even if it doesnt help
its is the illusion of risk that damages the PM industry and the government needs to do something about it
that is the point i am trying to make and that you are missing i think

as for dealers, so far in the short period i have been in PM i have had a bad expirence and a good one both with reputable dalers all whilst asking for advice and investion on the advice given.
one outright lied to me (and this forum set me straight thankyou all) the other helped me and i am forever thankful to him
but thats a 50% hit ratio, but i figure this is WA so small market leads to that

Please post a pic of the 1/10 dragon
Think this is the first I have heard of pm coins being faked well enough to fool someone.
I have seen some in china but even blind Freddy can tell the difference.
As I have stated before I am willing to buy it to cut it in half and post the pics.
Not to mention I think the mint would like to see it. We have members here that work at the mint.
Anybody else seen a fake PM coin?

 

[serial]

Fake

real
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Proof-Go...-Coin-999-Just-2-500-Minted-RAM-/261060731977

he know he was duped when he got it, was happy for me to take it away
oh and sorry i cant give it to you, its my 9 year old daughters "precious" lol she thinks it real

 

[Austacker]

I can see at a quick glance how it would fool someone that is the RAM version isn't it ?

 

[Steve19800]

Let's say the silver rate is at $30.53/oz, so 30.53 x 10 is $305.3
But when you see the dealer price, rarely the price will be the same as the silver rate, normally they sell more than that e.g. $345.00 So how can you tell if the price is expensive? What costs that fill those gap? Thanks.

 

[spannermonkey]

Let's say the silver rate is at $30.53/oz, so 30.53 x 10 is $305.3
But when you see the dealer price, rarely the price will be the same as the silver rate, normally they sell more than that e.g. $345.00 So how can you tell if the price is expensive? What costs that fill those gap? Thanks.

How much reading have you done , not much I would think
Spot price is
The wholesale rate that
1000oz bars are traded at
Most dealers buy at between 90%-100% of spot
That's how they make money

 

[Chillidog]

Yes that's a RAM coin not Perth mint.
Did not think anybody bought those. Lol
Size to wt would give this guy up.
Most of the RAM stuff is over priced from the start, that's why it's not as popular.
Thanks for the pic anyway.
Just a side comment. You keep stating that the sheeple are scared to invest in metals but there are over 6000 (make that 5134) registered members on this site alone. Can't be that much of a risk

 

[Steve19800]

Let's say the silver rate is at $30.53/oz, so 30.53 x 10 is $305.3
But when you see the dealer price, rarely the price will be the same as the silver rate, normally they sell more than that e.g. $345.00 So how can you tell if the price is expensive? What costs that fill those gap? Thanks.

How much reading have you done , not much I would think
Spot price is
The wholesale rate that
1000oz bars are traded at
Most dealers buy at between 90%-100% of spot
That's how they make money

Hi spannermonkey,

While doing reading I think PM bar would be a great start. Here is my first cast bar:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7659/image1360563708231305.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2558/image1360564061760269.jpg

What do you think? Good normal not good?