Why are silver coins cheaper than bars?

TreasureHunter

TreasureHunter

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I've been wondering: why are beautiful silver coins cheaper than the ugliest cast silver bars?

Overall while researching, the vast majority of silver bars cost way more per ounce than coins.

If you want to get the cheapest price per ounce, you will want to buy coins and not bars. Even 1 kg "coins", which I think are rather discs than coins, cost a lot less per ounce than 1 kg bars!

It costs more to design and manufacture a beautiful coin, but why is this weird price difference? :rolleyes:

Wouldn't it be logical that making bars is easier and the price should be lower?
 
Which coins cost less per ounce than say 10oz bars? Let me know. Are you talking abouts silver rounds perhaps?
 
No, I'm talking about coins in general: Maple Leaves, American Silver Eagles, Vienna Philharmonikers cost less than bars (per ounce).

I've seen a number of merchants selling bars for more. Bars from Valcambi, Heraeus, Umicore, UBS, PAMP etc. Even the ugliest, cheapest bars cost more per ounce.

I've discovered a very small number of bars that are sold as cheap as the mentioned coins: OPM, Sunshine Mint bars...etc.

Roughly 75-80 % of the bars available in Europe, UK, USA cost a cost more per ounce than the coins.

Quite often I could find coins for approx.23 $, but bars for 26-27 $ per ounce. In most cases... Some bars even cost 30+ $ per ounce.
 
The bars you mentioned (Valcambi etc) are all Swiss name bars. That's why they carry a premium.

If you want bars with low premiums, have to look at generic brands like OPM.
 
If you are looking to buy blobs (non-denom bullion bars), to me it makes no sense to want to buy the highest premium bars around. Sure you can find blobs that have a higher premium than many bullion coins, but it's no different than paying a high price for some designer white cotton socks that are equal or less quality than a good quality white cotton sock that you are not being way over charged for. It's a rip-off in my view to pay high premiums on blobs.

You'd be doing yourself a favor by not paying interest to these way over priced novelty blobs. I have a couple of 1 oz PAMP blobs but simply as curiosity....I don't and wouldn't get any more.

If you are in the US, every so often Provident runs a low premium, free shipping special on 10 oz OPM blobs. I bought some and will buy more when the special comes around again. They are very attractive blobs but blobs are bars are blobs in my view. There's no mintage limit to these bars with very few exception i believe like the pink diamond blob that I saw someone mention a few months back. Besides that, dings, scratches, and dents on blobs are not going to stop the mint from selling them and that would be akin to Perth Lunars being sold with all sorts of imperfections and without the capsule. Getting blobs evaluated, graded, and slabbed would be meaningless but as most here know, high premiums are being paid for high graded Lunars and ASE's as just two examples.


.
 
ML---Your incessant use of the word "blob" has me curious. A typical definition of that word is "A shapeless mass; a vague shape or amount,
a clump that lacks definite shape." Silver bullion bars are not shapeless masses, they're not of a vague shape or amount and nor are they
clumps that lack definite shape. They have definite, specific, uniform shapes and definite, specific, uniform weights. Because of this, your
use of the word "blob" is incorrect. Your posts don't suggest that you have a literacy problem, yet you incessantly repeat this one specific
error. Is there any reason aside from your obvious disdain for bullion bars for your doing this?
 
Fat Freddy said:
ML---Your incessant use of the word "blob" has me curious. A typical definition of that word is "A shapeless mass; a vague shape or amount,
a clump that lacks definite shape." Silver bullion bars are not shapeless masses, they're not of a vague shape or amount and nor are they
clumps that lack definite shape. They have definite, specific, uniform shapes and definite, specific, uniform weights. Because of this, your
use of the word "blob" is incorrect. Your posts don't suggest that you have a literacy problem, yet you incessantly repeat this one specific
error. Is there any reason aside from your obvious disdain for bullion bars for your doing this?
Click to expand...
Ok Mr Blob, it use to also be referred to as "lumps" which you'll also shoot down
 
@ Freddy

it's a term I use to distinguish common non-denom no-limit mintage bullion bars
8838_blobs.jpg


from limited mintage, high quality coins that are made in a bar shape.
8838_cook_islands_2011_year_rabbit_silver_rectangle_set.jpg



It's a descriptive convention I use because it fits my needs.



.
 
DanielM said:
Fat Freddy said:
ML---Your incessant use of the word "blob" has me curious. A typical definition of that word is "A shapeless mass; a vague shape or amount,
a clump that lacks definite shape." Silver bullion bars are not shapeless masses, they're not of a vague shape or amount and nor are they
clumps that lack definite shape. They have definite, specific, uniform shapes and definite, specific, uniform weights. Because of this, your
use of the word "blob" is incorrect. Your posts don't suggest that you have a literacy problem, yet you incessantly repeat this one specific
error. Is there any reason aside from your obvious disdain for bullion bars for your doing this?
Click to expand...
Ok Mr Blob, it use to also be referred to as "lumps" which you'll also shoot down
Click to expand...


"Lumps" is good too
 
TreasureHunter said:
Hi,

I've been wondering: why are beautiful silver coins cheaper than the ugliest cast silver bars?

Overall while researching, the vast majority of silver bars cost way more per ounce than coins.

If you want to get the cheapest price per ounce, you will want to buy coins and not bars. Even 1 kg "coins", which I think are rather discs than coins, cost a lot less per ounce than 1 kg bars!

It costs more to design and manufacture a beautiful coin, but why is this weird price difference? :rolleyes:

Wouldn't it be logical that making bars is easier and the price should be lower?
Click to expand...
In my region the explanation is a ~20% tax versus a 7-12% tax.
 
Daniel---Nobody shot anything down. I just asked a simple question and got a simple answer. I thought that's what forums were supposed to be for.
 
TreasureHunter said:
I've been wondering: why are beautiful silver coins cheaper than the ugliest cast silver bars?
Click to expand...

What country are you in? This definitely isn't the case in Australia. Parts of Europe has differs levels of VAT on legal tender as opposed to bars that could make it the case there.
 
Valcambi or Pamp would not be blobs or lumps, I'm sure, but any poured bar looks pretty 'industrial" and certainly seems to be intended more for practical ounce accumulation rather than aesthetics, I'm perfectly comfortable with the blob description of these.
A bit like comparing a pick up truck to a sports car.
I really don't see the point in this.
Personally, I see all bars as more of an industrial type of metal and consider rounds to be more the attractive higher premium metal, each having different purposes and different markets, or preferences perhaps.
I recently purchased a one ounce silver coin for over AU $100.00 but would never be interested in a one ounce bar anywhere near that price.
That is simply my preference however and others may appreciate a nice minted bar.
Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks is all.
 
goldpelican said:
TreasureHunter said:
I've been wondering: why are beautiful silver coins cheaper than the ugliest cast silver bars?
Click to expand...

What country are you in? This definitely isn't the case in Australia. Parts of Europe has differs levels of VAT on legal tender as opposed to bars that could make it the case there.
Click to expand...

It is 100% true for Australia 1 oz bars are more expensive then 1 oz coins

From our sponsors : -

Cheapest 1 oz rounds : -

$23.99 - OPM round (on special)
$26.93 - Buffalo round
$27.43 - XAG
$27.62 - Scottsdale ominia
$27.65 - Englehard prospector


Cheapest 1 oz bar available from forum sponsors - $27.73
 
goldpelican said:
OP was talking about 1kg.
Click to expand...


The word "Even" seems to indicate he was referring to all coins not just exclusively 1kg coins

I will agree 1 kg bars are cheaper then coins

1 kilo silver coin - 2013 Koala - $790 (goldstackers)
Cheapest 1 kg bar Pamp cast - $765 (bullionlist)


Once you get to 5oz bars then become cheaper then coins
 
TreasureHunter said:
No, I'm talking about coins in general: Maple Leaves, American Silver Eagles, Vienna Philharmonikers cost less than bars (per ounce).

I've seen a number of merchants selling bars for more. Bars from Valcambi, Heraeus, Umicore, UBS, PAMP etc. Even the ugliest, cheapest bars cost more per ounce.

I've discovered a very small number of bars that are sold as cheap as the mentioned coins: OPM, Sunshine Mint bars...etc.

Roughly 75-80 % of the bars available in Europe, UK, USA cost a cost more per ounce than the coins.

Quite often I could find coins for approx.23 $, but bars for 26-27 $ per ounce. In most cases... Some bars even cost 30+ $ per ounce.
Click to expand...


looks like the 15+ % was GST and special bar lovers premiums :D
 
Greg Williams said:
I like "Blobs" & "Lumps" - The blobbier and lumpier the better :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember them Toowoomba girls. Especially the Harlaxton babes. :D
 
These high prices are specific to Europe mainly. But also USA firms sell bars often at a too high price when compared to coins.

At this time it's more worth buying a 1 kg Kookaburra than a 1 kg Heraeus bar. About 50-75 $ difference.

In Europe the price of silver is much higher over spot than in the USA, Australia.

Especially in the EU it's worse...


This merchant has very high prices on bullion bars, but many coins are quite well-priced: www.coininvestdirect.om

The final price is compose of:
Product price + 10 % tax on silver (industrial metal) appears as "handling fee" + 19 % VAT

The "product price" includes the premium as well.

You will have to add the shipping fee as well at the end + transaction fees.

Overall you can't buy it for less than 30-40 % over spot price, if you calculate everything in (shipping etc.).

If we only calculate the final price of a 1 kg Heraeus bar (no shipping, no bank transaction fees included), then a bar will sell for 913 USD.
Coininvestdirect will buy it back for 624.38 $!
That's roughly 300 $ wasted... I guess it's not the company's fault, it's the EU's laws that make silver so expensive.

That still doesn't explain why coins are much cheaper per ounce than bars.

Other European merchants... similar situation:
www.amsterdamgold.com is another merchant, in the Netherlands.
www.suissegold.com is from Switzerland (non EU country, so no "special silver tax" is added, as I know...), but most of their bars are way above coin prices as well (there are very few, especially their own bars that cost close to coin prices)

Regardless of EU regulations, laws and high premiums, all this still doesn't explain why they have such immense prices for bar, but not that high for coins.

Prices per ounce in case of any bar, if you calculate is roughly around the price of a Panda coin (in the best case).

This is typical to Europe, UK. High prices on bars. What makes bars so expensive? I do not know!
I could enumerate a ton of EU sellers

But I've seen plenty of US merchants having similar issues. Prices per ounce in case of bars is higher.

To me it's a mystery... Australia, Asia, some US merchans too... are quite even in case of bars and coins - similar prices per ounce.
 
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