What makes Bullion collectible?

[iceblue]

Thanks GP ,So traded at reference to spot -
Being we sell mainly in forums we cannot install an automatic price index, so we tend to move the price in whole $$ terms, everything is purchased at spot + $x at lock in.
Spot of $18-$19 we would sell a round for $33.00
spot of $19-20 we would sell at $34.00
Spot of $21-22 sell at $35.00
Currently our rounds are selling @ $34ea.
A week or so ago when spot was at $22+, they were selling at $36.00ea
Is this considered - reference to spot?

 

[Captain Kookaburra]

Thanks GP ,So traded at reference to spot -
Being we sell mainly in forums we cannot install an automatic price index, so we tend to move the price in whole $$ terms, everything is purchased at spot + $x at lock in.
Spot of $18-$19 we would sell a round for $33.00
spot of $19-20 we would sell at $34.00
Spot of $21-22 sell at $35.00
Currently our rounds are selling @ $34ea.
A week or so ago when spot was at $22+, they were selling at $36.00ea
Is this considered - reference to spot?

I think any reasonable person, or indeed industry participant would consider this to be trading in reference to spot.

In the absence of a clearly legislated definition, then the industry norm should be the arbiter. It would seem, in my view, that the price regime outlined here shows these are bullion coins that are traded in reference to spot.

 

[goldpelican]

Thanks GP ,So traded at reference to spot -
Being we sell mainly in forums we cannot install an automatic price index, so we tend to move the price in whole $$ terms, everything is purchased at spot + $x at lock in.
Spot of $18-$19 we would sell a round for $33.00
spot of $19-20 we would sell at $34.00
Spot of $21-22 sell at $35.00
Currently our rounds are selling @ $34ea.
A week or so ago when spot was at $22+, they were selling at $36.00ea
Is this considered - reference to spot?

...a dealer that advertises a 1oz silver coin at $30 when spot is fluctuating around $20, but adjusts the price up or down relative to spot occasionally (say only every $2 in spot movement) could argue that they are selling "relative to spot" with a slow update interval...

Yes, that's pretty much what I was saying above. There's no time quantifier given as to what's considered "in reference to spot". I think Pinkman White used to sell on here at what they called fixed prices - they set their selling price based on what spot was when they listed a deal, and did not adjust it until "sold out" - that technically is still in reference to spot, but only in reference to spot was at the time they listed. That was an unattractive business model in my mind, as in anything other than a flat market, time decay ruined their sale either because it became unattractively priced compared to competitors, or it became absurdly cheap at the expense of potential margin. But it was still a sale in reference to spot - it's just that over time their spot price became outdated.

To me fixed price is setting something like RRP as is done on Perth Mint proof coins - priced at $109.95 etc regardless of what spot is.

 

[iceblue]

Thank you GP.

 

[silversearcher]

1- What someone is willing to pay

2- Condition of the bullion round

3- Can be dependent on age / key date

4- Authenticity

5- Rarity of the bullion round /demand for bullion round

 

[Perth Bullion Company]

Absolutely agreed, traded in reference to spot.

Spanner in the works - eBay listings for bullion products... It is a costly exercise to make an eBay store for bullion prices track the price of PMs. So these prices are typically are even more granular that SGB example below. (much more)

Thanks GP ,So traded at reference to spot -
Being we sell mainly in forums we cannot install an automatic price index, so we tend to move the price in whole $$ terms, everything is purchased at spot + $x at lock in.
Spot of $18-$19 we would sell a round for $33.00
spot of $19-20 we would sell at $34.00
Spot of $21-22 sell at $35.00
Currently our rounds are selling @ $34ea.
A week or so ago when spot was at $22+, they were selling at $36.00ea
Is this considered - reference to spot?

 

[iceblue]

Thanks Perth Bullion, Ahh yes ebay, we dont sell there very often, I think no matter what you do there its an expensive exercise!!!

 

[webbaby]

I would think a good example The 2014 Britannia proof. From my reading on the internet sources, most people like it. And the last check on the price is out of reach. So the art value and rarety can be appreciated by the collectors.

 

[mmissinglink]

I would think a good example The 2014 Britannia proof. From my reading on the internet sources, most people like it. And the last check on the price is out of reach. So the art value and rarety can be appreciated by the collectors.

The proof Britannia was never a bullion coin to begin with so I don't think that coin applies to the original question.




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[iceblue]

I would think a good example The 2014 Britannia proof. From my reading on the internet sources, most people like it. And the last check on the price is out of reach. So the art value and rarety can be appreciated by the collectors.

The proof Britannia was never a bullion coin to begin with so I don't think that coin applies to the original question.




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This. Proofs are not bullion.

 

[iceblue]

A mint/dealer can make a collectible proof, make the mintage as small as they want, and package it the way they want. (GST applies)
A mint/dealer can market a bullion round/coin as collectible or to collectors/investors, it simply does not gain acceptance as a collectible until the demand from the market decides it is. This could be instantly or could take some time.
From this thread, I think we can safely say that the MARKET decides based on various factors that members have pointed out in their replies.

 

[mmissinglink]

A mint/dealer can make a collectible proof, make the mintage as small as they want, and package it the way they want. (GST applies)
A mint/dealer can market a bullion round/coin as collectible or to collectors/investors, it simply does not gain acceptance as a collectible until the demand from the market decides it is. This could be instantly or could take some time.
From this thread, I think we can safely say that the MARKET decides based on various factors that members have pointed out in their replies.

And never underestimate market infiltration, penetration, influence, or whatever term one wants to use to describe how connected (or not) a mint or dealer is in the market. The Perth Mint is probably the best example of a company that has incredible penetration in the market....clearly they have dedicated a tremendous amount of resources and decades of experience/time in weaving the connections. How many people who are not total newbies and who buy modern bullion coins or blobs are not familiar with the PM and a number of their products? Very few I bet.

The PM doesn't even have to produce high quality coins and they will sell tons of them. That's market penetration. I'm not stating that the PM can't or never has produced some high or good quality bullion, they have and can produce among the best quality that I've seen. My point is, even when they don't produce good designs or a high quality product, they can still move their coins.



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