Verging on scam? Be warned

JB3 said:
Heh. I've not had a problem with TSM before, but I confess I don't think I'd give them three chances to mess up my orders before I went elsewhere.


Alleen een ezel stoot zijn kop twee keer aan de zelfde steen, nee?



JB3
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I give people chances.
Even if they perform badly X times.
Until some point, where I decide it's enough.
Then I go, to never return.

This has some names: loyalty, tolerance.
Sometimes these end up in the best relations.
Simply because people realize they're given another chance, and do it better.
Alleen ezels behandelen mensen als wegwerp, nee?
 
Well the bullion dealer is bullionmark, for anyone interested. I was cautious not to name them earlier because perhaps they might be sponsors and the people who run this site might not appreciate it. In that case please feel free to edit my comment or delete it.

What has everyone else's experience been with these guys? Is this rare to be treated this way? I'm still awaiting a reply to my most recent email, so see what they say on Monday.
 
Pirocco said:
I once ordered 10 libertad kilocoins, and some hours after my order, the item vanished from the dealers site. I got concerned, and I sent an email asking if it was sure that he could deliver them (I didn't tell him, but otherwise I would have ordered the Libertads at another dealer that had them in stock then)
He told me that I coincidently ordered the rest of his stock, so no problem to deliver them, and since he was out of stock after my order, he removed the item.
Guess what: 2 weeks later he sent me an email that he could only deliver 8; and he offered me some alternative kilocoins.
I wasn't happy with this, and he also didnt offer me to lower my order to 8, but I agreed anyway, but decided then to never order again from him anymore. It was the dealer I bought most of my silver from.
The fact is that he lied to me about that all in stock, just to not give me a chance to cancel the order and order elsewhere. I won't forget it.

I had some other bad experiences with him too, for ex one of my first (and big) orders he sent me a mail afterwards that he was charged costs by the bank, and that I should pay this. I contacted my bank and they said they didnt charge anything. It turned out HIS own bank that charged him. I emailed back that it would be ridiculous that I pay something his own bank is responsible for, not mine. I never got an answer on this anymore, but the fact is again that he tried.
And last, I received once a maple leaf monsterbox from him, packaged very badly, a big box filled with a whole bunch small styrofoam pieces. These of course don't hold a 15 kilo lump metal on its place, and the shipping company arrived with a ruined box, styrofoam everywhere escaping.
And it's not some small dealer, but one of the biggest, if not the biggest, in Netherland, TSM. Those that are familiar with that region, know who I mean.
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Im seeing this myself, some bullion dealers are listing items they do not hold. Ive been chasing one for 3/4 weeks now. The fact that the buyer has to do all the chasing is crazy. Im now told to ask if an item is in stock before ordering. If it wasnt for the prices I would tell them where to stick it.
 
klacey said:
Im seeing this myself, some bullion dealers are listing items they do not hold. Ive been chasing one for 3/4 weeks now. The fact that the buyer has to do all the chasing is crazy. Im now told to ask if an item is in stock before ordering. If it wasnt for the prices I would tell them where to stick it.
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That is a moronic answer they give, they run a shop, and they ask customers to first ask what they have? It's part of being 'shop' to say what is for sale.
That 'chasing' is in my region not as worse as yours though.

Webshop code of the other dealers I bought from (and also those I considered) since I dumped this one, tell you upon shopping cart addition attempt, that you exceeded what is available.
They also flag their products as 'in stock', 'x-y weeks delivery', 'out of stock', 'available from...', etc.
In other words: they make clear what the availability is.
If a stacker wants specific coins, and sees for ex. x-y weeks delivery, and knows another dealer that has them as in stock, he can just chose the latter option, to be sure getting them.

This dealer did a 'grab the order' instead of 'inform the customer'. To take away the latters option to buy elsewhere if not available at him.
The two earlier 'bad experiences' didn't end in something unwanted, they didn't do harm. The Maples monsterbox wasn't damaged and I didn't pay his bank charge. This third 'bad experience' however, left me with some kilocoins I didn't want and hence I ceased purchasing there.

Since then I ordered shinies from 6 other dealers, and had not any bad experience. I even forgot another case of this dealer, a few philharmoniker tubes of which the lids disattached during shipping, leaving the coins as a noisy pile inside the box. If you shaked the box you could hear it were coins haha. But again, no scratches or dents, so it didn't harm. Nevertheless, this happened after the Maples box story, where he emailed back that he would take it on with the person that packaged it.

Just an experience, with a dealer. This topic might be another example of such 'grab the order', hence I brought mine up.
 
Ok seeing as you stated that bullionmark is the dealer..... Apparently no a note isn't acceptable, infact they have a very clear policy(pretty harsh one)

Cancellation of Orders. It is not our intention to enter into buying and/or selling transactions, accepting the risks involved only to have them cancelled by you. However, we realise rare situations happen where orders need to be cancelled. Should you elect to cancel and/or offset your order, you must do so during normal business hours of 10:00 4:00 Sydney time, Monday to Friday. All cancellations are subject to our market loss policy plus a $95 cancellation fee. Cancellations may only be approved over the telephone, at which time you will be given a cancellation number. At that time, if any market loss to BULLIONMARK has occurred, it will be calculated and added to the $95.00 cancellation fee. If applicable, you may elect to pay any market loss by credit card at that time or, we will invoice you in which you will have 3 days to pay the amount due in full. No future orders may be permitted until any market loss is paid in full. Any market gain on cancellations shall remain the property of BULLIONMARK. We reserve the right to refuse or cancel any order deemed questionable, of risk to BULLIONMARK or at our discretion regardless of payment method, price confirmation or order status.
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I should add that this is from bullionmarks terms and conditions
 
Golightly said:
Consumer laws give you the right to return anything so long as you have the receipt. simply send it back saying it's not what you thought it was,
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That's actually not correct - you do not have a blanket "right" to return something... the item being returned needs to not meet one of the guarantees which sellers give such as

goods are not of acceptable quality
goods are not fit for a particular purpose
goods do not match their description

You cannot return something simply because you don't like it or "it's not what you thought it was". That said, some retailers (e.g. Kmart, Big W etc) have a policy of accepting returns on most (but not all) items if it is returned with the receipt. They don't have to do this - they choose to as a way to entice customers.

With precious metals, especially generic bars, proving a bar is not of acceptable quality, or does not match a description would be difficult but not impossible if you had say had discussions before placing the order that you wanted an XYZ brand bar with no imperfections.... proving a generic bar is not fit for a particular purpose would be nigh-on impossible IMHO
 
I dont understand why u would place and pay for a second order if u really thought it was a scam, or y u would give them the power over u by withholding ur second order if u thought that that is something they would possible do??
 
Lucenzo said:
I dont understand why u would place and pay for a second order if u really thought it was a scam, or y u would give them the power over u by withholding ur second order if u thought that that is something they would possible do??
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Oh wow this forum is hard work, it's like 7/10 people are mentally challenged. Did you even read my posts? Or did you read every 18th word and piece together that conclusion.
 
Badlye said:
Oh wow this forum is hard work, it's like 7/10 people are mentally challenged. Did you even read my posts? Or did you read every 18th word and piece together that conclusion.
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I told you ! I'm quite new on here myself but this is easily the least friendly forum that I've ever come across, unlike a lot of other forums everyone on here has the same interest / goals so you'd think it'd be a friendly site with everyone trying to help each other out with tip off and advice.

But it's quite the opposite, Bitching, Arguing, and stupid Accusations, personaly i think there's quite a bit of bitterness and jealousy to be honest !
 
This forum is 'bout money, that's THE scenario for bitterness jealousy argyuing bitching etc.
 
Badlye said:
Oh wow this forum is hard work...
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Really? I can't say that I have had any problems on here since I joined. But each to their own and all that...

I don't see any scam here mind you. As you quite openly stated in your first post that you made a mistake. That's fine, we all do that from time to time. Secondly, the terms and conditions of the site that you used [Bullionmark] state quite clearly that there will be a cancellation fee of $95, unless it is approved by telephone and a cancellation number given to you. So... you cancelled your first order as you made a mistake (via a note on your second order), you didn't do it by telephone, you didn't get a cancellation number, and the cancellation fee was automatically applied. Did I miss anything? How is that verging on a scam? You just didn't read the terms and conditions, so that's a lesson to learn for the future, as is filling out orders properly! I will admit that $95 does seem a bit steep as a cancellation fee though, and it's a bit unfortunate that you were trying to ring them up during the holidays. What I would do is, keep trying to contact them by phone and speak to a real person, explain that you messed up as you were a new customer, then promise them some more business if they graciously remove the cancellation fee for you, then see how you get on. Coming on here and moaning about it isn't really going to achieve much.

I bet you read the terms and conditions on the next bullion site you use though, eh?! :)
 
Actually I never read terms and conditions.
Because I visited to place an order, not to read a book.
 
Just wanted to close out this thread properly with an update of the conclusion

I paid the 95 fee, order was shipped out very quickly. Order was well packaged. I ordered a few lunar 1/2 oz dragons along with 2 Kg OPM bars. They sent me 3 1/10 gold lunar dragons instead, not sure if this was to make up for the bad service or it was simply a mistake, either I was very happy. They are actually quite pleasant to deal with provided you don't cancel an order.
 
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