VAT for silver from 7 to 19% in Germany (and rest of Europe?)

B

Blasterhjal

New Member
Wow, it's official;

Today I got this in my mail.
Below the Google translated english version!

"Der Deutsche Bundestag hat in seiner 243. Sitzung am 6. Juni 2013 die beiliegende Beschlussempfehlung des Vermittlungsausschusses Drucksache 17/13722 zu dem Gesetz zur Umsetzung der Amtshilferichtlinie sowie zur nderung steuerlicher Vorschriften (Amtshilferichtlinie-Umsetzungsgesetz-AmtshilfeRLUmsG) angenommen." verkndete der Bundesrat am 6. Juni. Damit ist es nun Gesetz, dass Silberanlagemnzen ab dem 01. Januar 2014 nicht mehr mit dem ermigten Mehrwertsteuersatz von 7%, sondern mit dem vollen Satz von (derzeit) 19% belegt werden.


Die Steuererhhung um 12 Punkte wrde bewirken, dass z.B. der Wiener Philharmoniker und Maple Leaf nicht wie heute bereits ab 19,63 erhltlich wren, sondern (bei gleicher Kursbasis) 21,83 kosten wrden. Also je Unze um ca. 2,20 mehr! Schlagen Sie also jetzt noch zu, solange noch der ermigte Steuersatz gilt, denn Silbermnzen werden ab 01. Januar automatisch 11,2% teurer! Vielleicht sogar noch mehr, denn wer wei, ob nach der Bundestagswahl der normale Mehrwertsteuersatz noch bei 19% bleibt.

Aber es gibt auch gute Nachrichten: Zum einen bleibt Anlagegold weiterhin mehrwertsteuerfrei und zum anderen knnen sich auf dem aktuellen Kursniveau noch besonders gnstig mit unseren heutigen Angeboten eindecken:



"The German Bundestag has the attached recommended decision of the Conciliation Committee in its 243rd meeting on June 6, 2013 - Adopted to the law implementing the Mutual Assistance Directive and amending tax legislation (the Mutual Assistance Directive Implementation Act-AmtshilfeRLUmsG) - printed matter 17/13722". announced by the Federal Council on 6 June. It is now law that silver bullion coins from 01 January 2014 will no longer occupied with the reduced VAT rate of 7%, but with the full set of (currently) 19%.


The tax increase by 12 points would cause such the Vienna Philharmonic and Maple Leaf available starting at 19.63 would not, as now, but would cost (same price) 21.83. So an ounce to about 2.20 More! So now you have to beat, as long as the reduced rate applies, because silver coins are from 01 January automatic 11.2% more expensive! Maybe even more, because who knows if after the election of the normal value added tax rate remains at 19%.

But there is some good news: First, investment gold remains tax free and the other may be particularly favorable stock up on the current price level, even with our current offerings:




Very curious what will happen!
 
Absolutely correct so stackers buying silver coins from Germany need to start ordering to beat the increase.
I have also noticed that my orders are taking 4 weeks to ship at the moment so the demand must be increasing as dealers struggle to keep up despite showing inventory on-line. Makes us Brits feel a little better as we have been getting screwed with this level of tax from the beginning. "Vorsprung Durch Technik"
 
Photonaware said:
Absolutely correct so stackers buying silver coins from Germany need to start ordering to beat the increase.
I have also noticed that my orders are taking 4 weeks to ship at the moment so the demand must be increasing as dealers struggle to keep up despite showing inventory on-line. Makes us Brits feel a little better as we have been getting screwed with this level of tax from the beginning. "Vorsprung Durch Technik"
Click to expand...

Urgh thats why have been stacking like crazy Photonaware. With the current low prices and the lower VAT rate from Germany, I hope to get all the 2014 Lunars, Kooks etc before the VAT increase. I'm unlikely in the future to get them as cheap again :mad:
 
Ah well this really sucks. Really sucks. I guess from 1st Jan 2014 us Brits are going to have to become smugglers :P
 
Blasterhjal said:
Pirocco said:
Is there an official source for this tax increase?
Click to expand...


Got the news through a newsletter from http://www.auragentum.de/, a pretty reputable PM dealer in Germany.
Weird thing is indeed, that you can't find the news somewhere else..
So or auragmentum is sending wrong information in their newsletters or they are very early with the news.
We will see...

EDIT:

Found another source

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...ag-erhoeht-mehrwertsteuer-auf-silber-muenzen/
Click to expand...

Could just be a sales tactic to boost sales. Ha. But actually I am pretty sure this is genuine info, I heard rumors a while ago that this was going to happen.
 
So gold will remain tax free for the rich to invest in but silver, what the poor man can afford to invest in, will be taxed.

Same as it is in the UK.

Rich people don't want you to invest in precious metals, a sure sign we are onto the right thing.

How long until we are taxed in Australia?
 
that is the reason to buy silver first, then gold later :)

buy before its taxed!
 
Yeah seems legit. Got some wind from German dealers that they will impose higher VAT rates from next year onwards. Don't know the exact dates though.
 
Blasterhjal said:
Pirocco said:
Is there an official source for this tax increase?
Click to expand...


Got the news through a newsletter from http://www.auragentum.de/, a pretty reputable PM dealer in Germany.
Weird thing is indeed, that you can't find the news somewhere else..
So or auragmentum is sending wrong information in their newsletters or they are very early with the news.
We will see...

EDIT:

Found another source

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...ag-erhoeht-mehrwertsteuer-auf-silber-muenzen/
Click to expand...
See, that other source doesn't use the word silver, instead it references "works of art and collectors 'pieces' ". Which is a debate on its own, that differs from EU country to EU country.
This is the most reliable/uptodate EU tax source I came across so far:
http://www.vatlive.com/category/german-vat/
So far nothing decided / in effect, and the only mentioning of increase of reduced rate dates from december 2012:
http://www.vatlive.com/european-news/german-increase-in-reduced-7-vat-rate-reports/
The reports indicate plans after the September 2013 German elections to bring in a range of spending cuts and tax rises to bring the GDP to debt ration down from over 80% to the key Euro currency target rate of below 60%. The reports have been denied by the Finance Ministry.
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Even the existence of plans (and there is already a difference between a plans and what happens) to do so are denied.
 
swe_silver said:
It will be raised to 19% 2014 01 01.

There is plenty to read about this, google: silber 7 oder 19 mwst
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Yes, Googles algorithms don't filter out bogus information, they just show articles whether true or not true. Repeating anything a hundred times doesn't make it more true than repeating it a dozen times.
Where's the official German government site tax change announcement, that's the question.
It's quite hard to believe that in the next 2 months they gonna publish that they will increase the reduced tax rate (including silver with a legal tender face value or art - excluding all the rest) on 01/01/2014, thus giving companies/businesses/customers less than a couple months to take into account the extra cost.
It's possible, but the world is a result of what is, not what can. I've read similar silver/tax related stories before, and they were bogus, much like alot other such stories, remember that French so-called 'forbidden to ship silver', which turnt out to be a more than a decade old rules from state companies alike the post wherein they forbid (and ignored, as all ebay buyers/sellers and many others including me know) sending gold/silver coins. Then all of sudden this is thrown before present day public eyes as breaking news lol.
 
Pirocco said:
swe_silver said:
It will be raised to 19% 2014 01 01.

There is plenty to read about this, google: silber 7 oder 19 mwst
Click to expand...
Yes, Googles algorithms don't filter out bogus information, they just show articles whether true or not true. Repeating anything a hundred times doesn't make it more true than repeating it a dozen times.
Where's the official German government site tax change announcement, that's the question.
It's quite hard to believe that in the next 2 months they gonna publish that they will increase the reduced tax rate (including silver with a legal tender face value or art - excluding all the rest) on 01/01/2014, thus giving companies/businesses/customers less than a couple months to take into account the extra cost.
It's possible, but the world is a result of what is, not what can. I've read similar silver/tax related stories before, and they were bogus, much like alot other such stories, remember that French so-called 'forbidden to ship silver', which turnt out to be a more than a decade old rules from state companies alike the post wherein they forbid (and ignored, as all ebay buyers/sellers and many others including me know) sending gold/silver coins. Then all of sudden this is thrown before present day public eyes as breaking news lol.
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Well, five different dealers in German told me this and that it will be included. I didnt ask them for links or proofs because i think they should know, and want to know. It was really close it was raised 1/1-13 but they needed more time. And i also read a link somewhere on silber.de in the forum, that i cant find right now, that says the same. Search there, there is 2 or 3 threads about it. So it will be raised and im not going to take my chances about that. And i also think we will se some official announcements. But if you want just e-mail a couple of all those dealers saying it will be raised and ask how they know.
 
From German seller, sent few weeks ago:

If I reach a Level for sells in European Union I have to pay the local tax for every Country.
In all the countries the VAT is right now higher for Silver coins and therefore it would cost Mae Money.
Click to expand...

Some other German told me that he started stockpiling silver some time go.

I order quite a lot from Germany since their shipping service is top notch and all sellers are very professional. No messing around and no false promises.
 
swe_silver said:
Well, five different dealers in German told me this and that it will be included. I didnt ask them for links or proofs because i think they should know, and want to know. It was really close it was raised 1/1-13 but they needed more time. And i also read a link somewhere on silber.de in the forum, that i cant find right now, that says the same. Search there, there is 2 or 3 threads about it. So it will be raised and im not going to take my chances about that. And i also think we will se some official announcements. But if you want just e-mail a couple of all those dealers saying it will be raised and ask how they know.
Click to expand...
Dealers claim alot, if I would have believed everything dealers wrote on their sites and in their emails, my silver average would probably have been $40 or so due to the Comex and JP Morgan defaulting and silver shortage and Chinese buying and debt ceilings and osama bin ladens and shortages and lol what did I all read over the period 2011+?

Stark said:
From German seller, sent few weeks ago:

If I reach a Level for sells in European Union I have to pay the local tax for every Country.
In all the countries the VAT is right now higher for Silver coins and therefore it would cost Mae Money.
Click to expand...

Some other German told me that he started stockpiling silver some time go.

I order quite a lot from Germany since their shipping service is top notch and all sellers are very professional. No messing around and no false promises.
Click to expand...
That quoted text is a throw-together of various tax elements - specific German foreign sales euro-denominated limits, normal and reduced tax rates, and tax methods.
For ex, in Netherland and Belgium there is no VAT on silver coins (or more accurate: any bullion silver with a legal tender face value on it - bar coin whatever shape), dealers pay corporate tax on their profit margin and that's it.
Some dealers falsely suggest that consumers have to pay tax, as to make customers think that the higher end-price is due to tax instead of due to their higher profit margin / spread. For ex, in the same country Netherland, one dealer suggests there is tax on silver coins (as he offers them as taxfree when bought but not delivered instead stored in a customs located tax free zone) while another dealer literally claims that silver coins are tax-free, but on another sitepage also offers them as nondelivered but stored in a customs depot. The first mentioned Netherland dealer offers Maple Leafs in both as tax and tax-free labeled ways so allowing comparison and the price difference is 8%, much lower than suggested and barely lower than the 7% tax German and equal but no tax Belgian dealers prices.

Take a Philharmoniker ouncer, today it (MB 500 price) costs 18,96 in Germany (7% reduced tax rate), 18,97 in Belgium (no tax, related law text referenced on invoices), 19.87 in Netherland (no tax) and 19.80 in France (no tax). And this picture changes unrelated to tax. In 2012 the Belgian was cheaper than the German and there was a period in which the Netherland one was cheaper than the German, making clear that their price setting is a function of other parameters than tax (stock/sales figures/silver price changes/dealers financial/business situation/etc).
So your all countries claim is clearly not true. And over 6 months above price comparison results can have changed entirely, like before. Without any tax change. Only the nonpresence/nonapplication of a reduced tax rate, so 'normal' tax rate, changes the picture. Alike in Austria and the UK. But in most other countries, there is a reduced tax rate, which is the very reason that many silver producers put even foreign legal tender currency values on their coins and even bars (alike Umicore) with currencies alike Andorra Diner, Suriname Dollar, Armenia Dram etc. In some cases the currency even isn't, and never was, legal tender, alike the Andorra Diner, making clear that producers/dealers interprete law texts rather 'freely'.
 
I didn't say tax is higher in all countries. That was quote from German seller. ;)
 
Stark said:
I didn't say tax is higher in all countries. That was quote from German seller. ;)
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I didn't say you said it, you had a quoted section in your post, so I referenced it as 'the quoted text'.
And it's funny (and typical) how yet another new topic on this was created since. Listed next to eachother. There are obviously some people that wanna spread/repeat this story alot. Maybe they just want to sell more silver, like before, and like always, haha.

Like it is with the current reduced tax rate, German/Netherland/Belgium/France/etc based dealers have a price advantage over Austria/UK/? dealers, basically this is named 'tax shopping', competition between governments, which is good because gives higher taxing governments less tax due to purchases in foreign countries instead of theirs. It's obvious that the EU central planning doesnt like this, they want to destroy competition between governments (and funny enough they give as reason their Single Market doctrine, to let private companies compete more (ofc with the exception of those they sponsor and made dependent), apparently thats no problem for them haha). So a change in this German reduced tax rate wouldn't surprise me, especially since German planners already increased the normal tax rate in 2007 to bring it more in line with the EU central plannings target figure. In 2011 Netherlands planners increased their reduced tax rate (by not that much though), so a German reduced tax rate increase wouldn't surprise me. But, the German government denied it, and there are no sources that for ex say that politician X said/hinted it, so what triggered this story then, the will for higher silver coin sales haha?
 
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