Vacuum Sealing Coins Demo (VIDEO)

[Nabullion Dynamite]

Thanks for these videos. If I start getting more into purchasing nicer coins I will be Vacuum sealing them. Looks like a simply way to aid in keeping your coins prestine!

 

[barsenault]

Thanks for sharing these instructive videos Bob. That kilo Goat sure is pretty.

Question: after sealing that coin, do you put it back in the OGP that it came in? Does it fit snugly in there now that it had extra plastic around it? The reason I ask is that most coins that come in OGP, and the part of that OGP which the coin sits in is a custom molded well that is usually just big enough for the coin in its original mint capsule to fit snugly in. So with the added plastic from the sealing, wouldn't that make it so the coin no longer fits into the custom molded coin well.



.

good question missing. I actually had to separate all my coins from their respective cases...from 1 oz on up, and that was NOT FUN...but it's done. so have a few creates of the cases (all kinds of cases)...but the good news is I've consolidated the pure metal into air-tite bins, ready to be dropped off at the secure facility where these are housed. I say bye, bye to my beautiful good for a little while, but I visit with them every now and then. LOL. but those coins won't fit inside the cases. I didn't seal them inside the cases, sure would have been easier, but the few times I tried, the pressure on those cases was fairly significant, and I didn't want to damage them.

 

[mmissinglink]

I figured as much because I seal mine in plastic which is pressed very tight to the capsule and still, some coins are very difficult to get back in their pre (custom) molded well.

One thing that puzzles me in your video, the Goat kilo you are holding is a bullion version coin, not the proof, yes? Why does it have a case then? The few Lunar 2 silver BU kilo coins I have didn't come in cases (granted, the last silver kilo BU I acquired was a 2012 Dragon).

Are the PM Lunar 2 silver BU kilos now coming in cases these days??




.

 

[barsenault]

I figured as much because I seal mine in plastic which is pressed very tight to the capsule and still, some coins are very difficult to get back in their pre (custom) molded well.

One thing that puzzles me in your video, the Goat kilo you are holding is a bullion version coin, not the proof, yes? Why does it have a case then? The few Lunar 2 silver BU kilo coins I have didn't come in cases (granted, the last silver kilo BU I acquired was a 2012 Dragon).

Are the PM Lunar 2 silver BU kilos now coming in cases these days??




.

Hey missing, you are right. The goat bullion kilo didn't come with a case. I bought that separate on APMEX, I believe. I think for 19.00.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

What about the tiny bit of air still inside the air-tites?

I believe that air is suck out. what if you were in that capsule, under that wrap, would you be able to breath...without an oxygen mask.

I gather there would be a permanent bit of air still inside an air-tite of a 1-oz coin at the bottom of the red-topped tube, no?

If so, how much of a role that could potentially play in forming spots, I have no idea.


But I imagine what you're doing is at least certainly better than leaving them naked in a mint tube..

 

[mmissinglink]

The development of "toning" (tarnish) which is damage to a coin and perhaps milk spots too are exacerbated by exposure to the air around us....in a hundred years, who knows how badly damaged by tarnish unsealed silver coins we buy today will be.

Next to no one I have ever come across actually prefers toning / tarnish damage on their silver coins. I avoid any coin with toning.




.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

The development of "toning" (tarnish) which is damage to a coin and perhaps milk spots too are exacerbated by exposure to the air around us....in a hundred years, who knows how badly damaged by tarnish unsealed silver coins we buy today will be.

Next to no one I have ever come across actually prefers toning / tarnish damage on their silver coins. I avoid any coin with toning.

Toning isn't damage.

And some of us happily pay up for old coins with really cool toning that brings out the designs in a whole new way..

In fact, I avoid cleaned / obviously-dipped ones.

 

[barsenault]

yeah gatito, my brother has some nice morgans with rainbow toning, and folks pay a premium for that color. heck some folks go out of their way to make rainbow toning develop on the coin...to each it's own. but on the older coins, it adds a little character.


click to enlarge.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

yeah gatito, my brother has some nice morgans with rainbow toning, and folks pay a premium for that color. heck some folks go out of their way to make rainbow toning develop on the coin...to each it's own. but on the older coins, it adds a little character.


click to enlarge.
http://postimg.org/image/gte5w1y1t/

Heh, could be wrong, but looks like artificial toning to me. Nothing wrong with that, just not my thing. Understand why some would be into those, though.

I prefer natural toning.. Coppers/golds, black/grays, browns/tans, etc. And album toning is pretty cool, which can sometimes inadvertently produce some reds, blues, purples & golden rainbows -- which can usually be easily distinguished from intentionally-induced toning. Your example is just way too bold & colorful in particular patterns, which indicate artificial, at least to my eyes.

 

[mmissinglink]

Toning is definitely the result of damage to a coin: http://www.ncscoin.com/conservation/

There are plenty of other sources which confirm this also.

Facts are facts.



.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

Toning is definitely the result of damage to a coin: http://www.ncscoin.com/conservation/

There are plenty of other sources which confirm this also.

Facts are facts.

Here's a fact..

All the TPG's say natural toning is not a problem. Otherwise, they'd be giving all these millions of coins a non-numerical details term under the damaged category..

http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/coin-details/glossary.aspx


I don't see "Toned" in that damage list.


I get where you're coming from, however, as I understand enough of what's going on there. Technically it's micro-surface "damage." But when most people think of that term, it's due to at least one of those in the above list.


I take some measures in protecting my stuff -- even the lower-premium items -- as best as I reasonably can. Some might take it further, while others, less. But you have to keep in mind that we're fighting a losing battle. Because it's silver. Eventually Mother Nature will win in the end, given enough time.


Anyway, here's an interesting snippet I found. Might it apply here..?

Some collectors are afraid of toned coins, says Mark Salzberg, president of the coin-grading service NGC. "It simply doesn't make any sense," he wrote in an article titled "The Virtues of Toned Coins," which appears at the Web site Coin-Gallery Online. "It's only natural that old coins, particularly silver pieces, acquire various degrees and shades of color over time. This is one of the most charming qualities of antique coins that distinguish them from more recent issues, and I believe collectors who don't already do so should learn to appreciate the virtues of toned coins."

 

[barsenault]

yeah gatito, my brother has some nice morgans with rainbow toning, and folks pay a premium for that color. heck some folks go out of their way to make rainbow toning develop on the coin...to each it's own. but on the older coins, it adds a little character.


click to enlarge.
http://postimg.org/image/gte5w1y1t/

Heh, could be wrong, but looks like artificial toning to me. Nothing wrong with that, just not my thing. Understand why some would be into those, though.

I prefer natural toning.. Coppers/golds, black/grays, browns/tans, etc. And album toning is pretty cool, which can sometimes inadvertently produce some reds, blues, purples & golden rainbows -- which can usually be easily distinguished from intentionally-induced toning. Your example is just way too bold & colorful in particular patterns, which indicate artificial, at least to my eyes.

oh, I just got that picture off of google. lol. that isn't mine. or anyone I know who has it. lol.

 

[barsenault]

Toning is definitely the result of damage to a coin: http://www.ncscoin.com/conservation/

There are plenty of other sources which confirm this also.

Facts are facts.

Here's a fact..

All the TPG's say natural toning is not a problem. Otherwise, they'd be giving all these millions of coins a non-numerical details term under the damaged category..

http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/coin-details/glossary.aspx


I don't see "Toned" in that damage list.


I get where you're coming from, however, as I understand enough of what's going on there. Technically it's micro-surface "damage." But when most people think of that term, it's due to at least one of those in the above list.


I take some measures in protecting my stuff -- even the lower-premium items -- as best as I reasonably can. Some might take it further, while others, less. But you have to keep in mind that we're fighting a losing battle. Because it's silver. Eventually Mother Nature will win in the end, given enough time.


Anyway, here's an interesting snippet I found. Might it apply here..?

Some collectors are afraid of toned coins, says Mark Salzberg, president of the coin-grading service NGC. "It simply doesn't make any sense," he wrote in an article titled "The Virtues of Toned Coins," which appears at the Web site Coin-Gallery Online. "It's only natural that old coins, particularly silver pieces, acquire various degrees and shades of color over time. This is one of the most charming qualities of antique coins that distinguish them from more recent issues, and I believe collectors who don't already do so should learn to appreciate the virtues of toned coins."

I do find it interesting that there are sooooooo many (millions?) of morgans, peace dollars, and other u.s. silver coins from way back when that still look in pristine condition...no toning, no NCS cleaning, nada...and yet there are some who have very nice toning. interesting how mother nature picks some and not others to tone. lol. I'll do my part in protecting my goods from toning. I have to believe that vacuum sealing does the trick, and it's my bet that all the air is suck out of the capsules. but who knows. I wonder if anyone has science to prove or disprove? Thanks for sharing that clip from NGC. It's a good point he makes...although, I wonder if he has a stash of toned coins he's trying to unload.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

I do find it interesting that there are sooooooo many (millions?) of morgans, peace dollars, and other u.s. silver coins from way back when that still look in pristine condition...no toning, no NCS cleaning, nada...and yet there are some who have very nice toning.

Obviously a lot also depends on how they were handled/stored, their overall environment (temperature, humidity, gases/compounds), and even the composition (.999 is a relatively new thing, remember).


I assure you, there are plenty of beautifully-toned coins out there. And oftentimes, photos do not do them justice.. You really have to see them in person (various lighting & angles) to fully appreciate them. I can't count how many times I've won auctions where I thought a toned coin looked cool in the photos -- only to be seriously blown away once I got them in hand. Even some of those new-tech photos from TPG's don't always fully do them justice.


And don't get me wrong: There are also some horribly-toned uglies out there, too. Sometimes they could use a good dip, as long as it's done properly. Even then, you'll be stripping away decades & even centuries' worth of toning, so it's not a decision to be made lightly in those cases.

I have one coin from the early 1800's, for example, where they're either pretty "flat" & dark -- or obviously dipped. No inbetween. I understand why some chose to dip. I was lucky to get one that while fairly dark, also had enough contrast in the right places to make it work. No way would I have been happy with a dipped one, as I think they look ugly in those cases!


We all have our own Ag preferences, whether it's form factor, design, weight/size, and even toning (or lack thereof). In that last case, some see "dirty" coins, while others see artistic beauty.

Whatever floats yer boat! And some people out there should be happy that people like me will gladly take a (nicely) toned coin off your hands. Might even pay up for it, too.

But kudos, too, to those who are taking extra measures in attempt to preserve their stash as best as reasonably possible.

 

[mmissinglink]

Hey Gatito,

Not to belabor the point but I just want you to not misunderstand me:

"Light surface corrosion, or toning as it's described in the numismatic community, can be very desirable. Collectors often prize it as one indicator of a coin's originality, or closeness to its original state. Toning causes copper coins to turn brown, and silver and nickel coins to develop hues of blue, red, green, purple, and other colors. Often, these coins need little or no conservation; however, advanced stages of corrosion can damage a coin's surfaces. If the toning process goes too far, the coins turn black and the actual surface of the coin may be ruined forever." - from NCS

Corrosion is damage, that's a fact. Just because the corrosion (toning) isn't significant and may even look appealing to some, doesn't mean it's not damage to a coins surface. I never claimed all toning is significant damage, but toning can be significant or it can be somewhat insignificant corrosion. The rainbow toning effect, whether natural or intentionally enhanced, that some people like is corrosion to the surface of the silver coin.

My argument is not that it's not appealing to some (beauty is in the eye of the beholder), just that toning is corrosion, which is damage. Some TPG's may give a coin a slightly higher grade due to "eye appeal" for a coin that has exceptionally striking or "beautiful" light toning / corrosion.

To me, toning is as appealing as visible milk spots.

Some people may like bent coins or error coins or coins which have a hold drilled into them (used as a pendant at one time). Others like me want a coin to look as it was designed to look and fresh off the press with no corrosion or anything else concealing the design.

To each their own, but toning is corrosion my friend.



.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

To me, toning is as appealing as visible milk spots.

Oddly enough, I think in some cases (very few, LOL), milk-spots can actually *enhance* a piece! At least in my eyes.

Example: I've got one where the design is a bird flying in the sky.. small, various-sized milk-spots only in the field. Looks like stars of a beautiful night sky.

I'm holding onto that one. Depending on if/how it tones, it might even make it that much more attactive. Again, at least in my eyes.


mmissinglink, question for you..

What do you think of dipping toned coins to make them look "new" again?

Technically, these are being "damaged," too.. Again, at the micro-surface level.

 

[mmissinglink]

To me, toning is as appealing as visible milk spots.

Oddly enough, I think in some cases (very few, LOL), milk-spots can actually *enhance* a piece! At least in my eyes.

Example: I've got one where the design is a bird flying in the sky.. small, various-sized milk-spots only in the field. Looks like stars of a beautiful night sky.

I'm holding onto that one. Depending on if/how it tones, it might even make it that much more attactive. Again, at least in my eyes.


mmissinglink, question for you..

What do you think of dipping toned coins to make them look "new" again?

Technically, these are being "damaged," too.. Again, at the micro-surface level.

If the coins are toned, that means they already are suffering from some level of corrosion. Therefore, the dipping of a toned coin is not what has caused the damage...it's the corrosion (toning) that has.

I have no problem with a toned coin that is dipped in a specialized solution which is designed specifically for reducing the effects of corrosion (toning) on collector coins. In my view, blast white is much more preferable to me as it is closest to how a coin was originally designed to look after minting and before any possible corrosion (toning) sets in.

Let me ask you a question: do you like the look of the proof silver Eisenhower dollar coins that (notoriously) have some bluish or brownish PVC residue cloudiness? Would you pay a premium for a coin that suffers from that sort of "toning"? Why / why not?



.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

To a certain degree, dipping a coin, even when done properly, is "damaging" it at the micro-surface level, too.

Though TPG's don't consider properly-dipped -- or toned -- coins as damaged. I don't blindly defer to them, but I take into heavy consideration their official stance on things, as they certainly have a lot more combined experience & knowledge than me.


I have a confession to make: I have a small collection of vintage bars.. Minted, poured & cast. None of the crazy-premium ultra-rare stuff, but they haven't made these in a good 3 or 4 decades.

Know what I do shortly after I receive each & every one of them? Give them a quick dip, followed by thorough distilled-H2O rinse & proper dry (microfiber cloth). I almost hate doing it, and I'm sure some vintage-bar enthusiasts would berate me, but I can't stand the overall toning on them. Certainly miss the good aspects, but the bad outweighs the good, IMO. I believe in giving them a fresh start. And yes, some of them look a bit funny untoned, especially the stamps.. But in due time, with proper handling & storage, they'll eventually re-tone, most likely in a more pleasing fashion to me (and probably most potential subsequent owners).

For some reason, I look at vintage bars differently, as a separate category. Part of it is their relatively lower premiums compared to old coins, and part of it is the design factor (or lack thereof). I also think along the way, many people are a bit more apt to "abuse" bars, and not take care of them as they probably should. Then again, I don't have any bars from centuries ago, either, heh.


And for the record, while I like cool toning, I also picked up earlier this year, for example, a slabbed coin from the mid-1970's which looks like it was minted yesterday. I can't say for certain whether it was dipped or just stored properly.. but if the latter, then I certainly appreciate the previous owner(s)'s foresight & effort. It's really a beautiful coin in immaculate condition. And I do have some others like this. So, I'm not *all* about the toned stuff.


Anyway, as for PVC damage? A completely different ballgame. From what I understand, the plasticizers attack the surface in a different & much more aggressive manner, as compared to your typical environmental gases & compounds. Apples & oranges, in my book.

And no, I wouldn't buy that cloudy Eisenhower -- for the simple fact that I don't do older US coins.


Follow-up question: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed you like the Pena. Do you consider that "damaged"? Because one could argue the case that it is, on some level, as well.

 

[mmissinglink]

To a certain degree, dipping a coin, even when done properly, is "damaging" it at the micro-surface level, too.

Though TPG's don't consider properly-dipped -- or toned -- coins as damaged. I don't blindly defer to them, but I take into heavy consideration their official stance on things, as they certainly have a lot more combined experience & knowledge than me.


I have a confession to make: I have a small collection of vintage bars.. Minted, poured & cast. None of the crazy-premium ultra-rare stuff, but they haven't made these in a good 3 or 4 decades.

Know what I do shortly after I receive each & every one of them? Give them a quick dip, followed by thorough distilled-H2O rinse & proper dry (microfiber cloth). I almost hate doing it, and I'm sure some vintage-bar enthusiasts would berate me, but I can't stand the overall toning on them. Certainly miss the good aspects, but the bad outweighs the good, IMO. I believe in giving them a fresh start. And yes, some of them look a bit funny untoned, especially the stamps.. But in due time, with proper handling & storage, they'll eventually re-tone, most likely in a more pleasing fashion to me (and probably most potential subsequent owners).

For some reason, I look at vintage bars differently, as a separate category. Part of it is their relatively lower premiums compared to old coins, and part of it is the design factor (or lack thereof). I also think along the way, many people are a bit more apt to "abuse" bars, and not take care of them as they probably should. Then again, I don't have any bars from centuries ago, either, heh.


And for the record, while I like cool toning, I also picked up earlier this year, for example, a slabbed coin from the mid-1970's which looks like it was minted yesterday. I can't say for certain whether it was dipped or just stored properly.. but if the latter, then I certainly appreciate the previous owner(s)'s foresight & effort. It's really a beautiful coin in immaculate condition. And I do have some others like this. So, I'm not *all* about the toned stuff.


Anyway, as for PVC damage? A completely different ballgame. From what I understand, the plasticizers attack the surface in a different & much more aggressive manner, as compared to your typical environmental gases & compounds. Apples & oranges, in my book.

And no, I wouldn't buy that cloudy Eisenhower -- for the simple fact that I don't do older US coins.


Follow-up question: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed you like the Pena. Do you consider that "damaged"? Because one could argue the case that it is, on some level, as well.

Hey Gatito,

The way I see the claim that dipping (an already toned (corroded) coin) means one is causing very slight damage (at the micro-level) to the surface of the coin....it's a moot point since the toning already means that corrosion (micro-level damage to the surface) already exists. The surface is already compromised when there is toning so why should I be concerned that dipping will compromise the surface of the coin? I consider corrosion damage. Toning is corrosion. When the corrosion is only minimal, then the damage may be seen as negligible to many people (including TPG's at this time) but corrosion, no matter how subjectively pretty, is still damage.

I don't consider antique finishes as damage to a coin...it's part of that coin's design. Same with the America The Beautiful "P" vapor blast finish...not damage to the coin because it's part of the design. Applications of gilt or color are likewise not damage.

Damage is a degradation of the coin after production / production treatments. That's not to say that a coin can not sustain very minor damage during production...coins often do. That's why most coins do not get a 70 grade due to nicks, scuffs, scratches, dings, or other types of damage during production.




.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

I consider corrosion damage. Toning is corrosion. When the corrosion is only minimal, then the damage may be seen as negligible to many people (including TPG's at this time) but corrosion, no matter how subjectively pretty, is still damage.

I don't consider antique finishes as damage to a coin...

And how do you think the Mint of Poland obtains the Pena's antique finish?