tungsten filled 1 kilo gold bar discovered in UK

So does this give support to the tungsten fraud theory, or is this seen as a 'one off'?

I think I read previously that the 'tungsten' bars, were a tungsten core with a gold casing - a bit different to this method - and the skill required to create the Fort Knox scam was supposed to be high level metal smelting - as found in China.

More suspicious activity in the gold market!
 
It may sound irritating, but ... this event has made me think about gold bars and their value. Imagine these guys had mixed in some Osmium or so, and managed to let it weigh exactly 1000.00 grams. This bar might have made its way through dozens of hands. Everybody would have been happy about his gold. It would have served the same purpose as real gold: Preservation of wealth. Seriously, in which event is a nice, shiny 1000.00g gold bar with certificate really melted or cut into pieces? Nobody might ever have noticed it, maybe for tens or even hundreds of years.

Is it blasphemy to ask "Who cares if it's filled with tungsten?" :o

Just kidding ;)
Probably the chances that silver bars are conterfeit is lower, but ... I have to admit that I've also been examining mine critically and doubtfully. After all, I have a better feeling with coins...

However, I wonder how much gold in vaults and safes all over the world is indeed tungsten. Are there any "profound" estimations, maybe a rough percentage?
 
A couple of very small diameter drill holes would pick up this fraud.
Gold is soft and tungsten very hard.
The holes might even increase its value.
 
JulieW said:
So does this give support to the tungsten fraud theory, or is this seen as a 'one off'?

I think I read previously that the 'tungsten' bars, were a tungsten core with a gold casing - a bit different to this method - and the skill required to create the Fort Knox scam was supposed to be high level metal smelting - as found in China.

More suspicious activity in the gold market!
Click to expand...

If there is any single large entity to pin the suspicion on for tungsten core with gold casing bars, I think it would lie with the US rather than with China. Gold is the enemy of the US$. And its been the US entitities/media rather than China that has been doing all it can to talk the price of gold down. The US has also been the one lobbying through the IMF for countries to sell off their gold reserves (though the US hasn't done so yet, NOT OFFICIALLY anyway.........maybe thats why they may only have Tungsten filled gold left in Fort Knox and don't want an audit??!!)).

What better way to turn people off gold as a hedge/investment than to debase its credibility. If this "tungsten filled gold bar" story is spread around enough as spam, then the sheeple will even look at their little one ounce coins and start to wonder if it is gold plated tungsten.
 
I think mesh/perforated bars would be the only way to stop this type of thing happening. Valcambi bars are looking like a foolproof bar .

Maybe its time to bring gold bars into the 21st century
 
renovator said:
I think mesh/perforated bars would be the only way to stop this type of thing happening. Valcambi bars are looking like a foolproof bar .

Maybe its time to bring gold bars into the 21st century
Click to expand...


UBS Kinebars are pretty foolproof as well :)
 
Peter said:
A couple of very small diameter drill holes would pick up this fraud.
Gold is soft and tungsten very hard.
The holes might even increase its value.
Click to expand...

I am happy to leave my certicards untouched .... and wait to see if anyone else is game to start drilling away to increase their value :P
 
Certicards are thin and so,immune to this fraud.
If I were lucky enough to be buying a large lump of gold i'd feel more sure if it had holes thru it,,and insist it be done ,agreeing to buy if it past the test.
Otherwise ,would you presently buy?
How would you do it.


Also someone suggested hanging and hitting the bar:it would sound differently if filled,being stiffer,more rigid.
 
I'm in the process of buying an ultrasonic thickness gauge that is supposed to be able to measure the thickness of a bar based on sound velocity - sounds travel through different metals at different speeds, eg gold is 3240m/s, silver is 3650m/s, tungsten is 5220m/s. A thickness test should show a tungsten filled gold bar to read thinner than it actually is, e.g. only 8mm when it is actually 12mm etc.

I think this in conjunction with XRF and specific gravity should be foolproof - even though gold cored with tungsten would test as gold with the XRF and measure as gold based on specific gravity, it would be near impossible to fake the sound velocity as well - unless there's some unobtanium out there with both the same SG and sound velocity as gold.

Going to test it on a couple of silver bars to show the effect once I've got the meter delivered.
 
goldpelican said:
I'm in the process of buying an ultrasonic thickness gauge that is supposed to be able to measure the thickness of a bar based on sound velocity - sounds travel through different metals at different speeds, eg gold is 3240m/s, silver is 3650m/s, tungsten is 5220m/s. A thickness test should show a tungsten filled gold bar to read thinner than it actually is, e.g. only 8mm when it is actually 12mm etc.

I think this in conjunction with XRF and specific gravity should be foolproof - even though gold cored with tungsten would test as gold with the XRF and measure as gold based on specific gravity, it would be near impossible to fake the sound velocity as well - unless there's some unobtanium out there with both the same SG and sound velocity as gold.

Going to test it on a couple of silver bars to show the effect once I've got the meter delivered.
Click to expand...

That sounds interesting, when you get them can you post some pics of results? i'm kinda interested. I would love to see results of normal metalor bar vs. this bar on these devices.
 
Just goes to show the "original certificate" is really worth the toilet paper it's printed on.

Looking at the photos it wouldn't be to hard to do if you had access to the right gear.
 
All this super science stuff is brilliant. Reminds me of the Curiosity Show. :)

GP will you soon need to wear a white coat at work? :D
 
I am kind of surprised that ultrasonic thickness measurement hasnt made its way into the PM world as yet.

I have seen it used a lot for measuring velocities in piping and wall thicknesses (eg for corrosion measurement) on tanks and piping.

So it would seem a logical extension to use for determining if there are any foreign objects (ie reflections or velocity change) in a solid bar.

As for ringing your gold .. I would be scared to do this in case it got dented
 
There is also an alternate way of testing the content of any item but it involves radiation and a very expensive machine that the Army has a few units of so it's not really practical in real terms.
 
Forbes ran an article on this... interestingly the author claims to have contacted MKS, who are unaware of the email that was sent.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/26/the-drilled-gold-bars-filled-with-tungsten/

Which, at least as of lunchtime today was something of a surprise to MKS as when I spoke to them they had no idea about it all. There were quite a lot of people like me asking about it but they had no idea whether the story was true, whether someone in their company had sent it, no real idea of what was going on at all. They were quite mystified in fact.
Click to expand...

A hoax?
 
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