Trying to argue with people who don't believe in the "collapse"

If it happens, it will be far deeper than '08. Unless they invent something similar to QE to bury the problem again...

Back in 2008 I've had discussions with dozens of people who put me down, ignoring the obvious economic problems. Even the "educated" masses are dumb about how the global economy works. They can't comprehend how fragile the system is and how deep we can go if the first domino falls.

Ignorance is not bliss, it's dumber than "Dumb and Dumber".

If average people back then didn't feel the depths of the crisis, at most they were affected by currency exchange rates, rising food and energy prices, loss of jobs...

So, they won't comprehend the depths now either. Although, it will be a lot worse.

The situation we're in now is a Noah's Ark situation. People are dumb and keep ignoring...

It can be ignorance, they might be less informed or just dumb arrogant.

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But perhaps it's best not to try to save "some" people. You'd be better off if you don't take them on board. :D

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TreasureHunter said:
If average people back then didn't feel the depths of the crisis, at most they were affected by currency exchange rates, rising food and energy prices, loss of jobs...
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Losing your job, and not being able to get another one is ultimately the only thing that is really going to affect the average person.
Their investment property might fall in value, and their share portfolio may plummet, and prices of things may go up, but unless their debts are called in or they are forced to sell, life goes on.
 
The government have a lot of options up their sleeve. Just like wartime England, a system of rationing is still a possibility should world credit markets grind to a halt. We are self sufficient with regards to most products, plenty of food, beer etc. That is the first problem solved.
Anarchy will only take place on empty stomachs.
 
We are doing QE now and the economy is still dropping. Their tools of printing money and economic manipulation isnt working like it was. The Trump/Obama economic plan is dissolving before our eyes and shows the keynsian lefts shortfalls.
Its the reason liberalism is a mental disorder. It never works.
 
openeyes said:
They 100% will. The only question is - will it work to delay the credit crunch and for how long?
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The Fed-IMF-... (fill in the blank) triangle will prolly come up with another trick pulled from the hat.

QE was just one ace from the sleeve. Besides easing, there must be something else... like: "forgetting" the debt? Cheating in the numbers? There certainly must be something they'll try.

Post-2008, the US has changed the way they're calculating GDP (GDP growth). Very "nice" trick. Sneaky.

Basically, they only have to change the rules and create the false impression that things are all right.

What I fear is that they'll somehow put the debt (fault) on the heads of ordinary people. Orwellian slavery? Pay off debt with people? Like when the assets to pay the debt of will actually be human workforce.

Modern gulag: you will work, work, work for some sort of crypto fiat, which feeds the dark forces who are running the global economy.

Basically all we have to guess is how the next slavery will actually occur - what type of slavery will emerge.

There was a movie called "In Time" (haven't seen it) - here's what Wikipedia says:
"a new economic system uses time as currency, and each person has a clock on their arm that counts down how long they have to live"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Time

Lifetime, human life itself could be the next "human resource". DIS-GUS-TING (but at this time it's just a horror fantasy :D ... will it come true?)
 
What is odd (has anyone noticed?): more and more walls/fences are appearing in the world. But people only talk about one or two of them. Yet, there are more and more appearing:

1) Israel's walls vs. Palestinian lands
2) Hungary's famous double border fence with night vision cameras (against mass migration)
3) Bulgaria's border fence vs Turkey: it was in place long ago, but somehow no-one ever criticizes them
4) Macedonia's border fence vs Greece: yet another barricade against mass migration, but built in collaboration with Hungary
5) Tukey's solid wall vs Armenia: rather for political reasons than anything else
6) Ceuta wall (Spain's exclave in Morocco): African migrans keep climbind and crossing (you prolly saw in many videos)
7) the USA's fence/wall vs Mexico: more or less complete
8) the walls in Belfast (Northern Ireland)
...etc.

We're livin' in a world of walls. The Berlin wall was nothing compared to what we have today. And more are being built (for sure).

It's like in the movie "Escape from New York". A contained gulag-type world. The world is getting fragmented, but this comes with the "walling in" mentality.

Everyone has or/can find a reason to build a wall to "protect" themselves from the neighbor.

Thank God the neighbor doesn't have to spend money on the wall at all! :D

If Trump builds "the wall", Mexico will be better protected from the US' warmongering and internal turmoil. :D
 
TreasureHunter said:
The Fed-IMF-... (fill in the blank) triangle will prolly come up with another trick pulled from the hat.

QE was just one ace from the sleeve. Besides easing, there must be something else... like: "forgetting" the debt? Cheating in the numbers? There certainly must be something they'll try.

Post-2008, the US has changed the way they're calculating GDP (GDP growth). Very "nice" trick. Sneaky.

Basically, they only have to change the rules and create the false impression that things are all right.

What I fear is that they'll somehow put the debt (fault) on the heads of ordinary people. Orwellian slavery? Pay off debt with people? Like when the assets to pay the debt of will actually be human workforce.

Modern gulag: you will work, work, work for some sort of crypto fiat, which feeds the dark forces who are running the global economy.

Basically all we have to guess is how the next slavery will actually occur - what type of slavery will emerge.

There was a movie called "In Time" (haven't seen it) - here's what Wikipedia says:
"a new economic system uses time as currency, and each person has a clock on their arm that counts down how long they have to live"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Time

Lifetime, human life itself could be the next "human resource". DIS-GUS-TING (but at this time it's just a horror fantasy :D ... will it come true?)
Click to expand...

To me I don’t see it as something new but a continuation of human history. People, societies and countries have taken advantage of others to a more or lesser degree. When compassion is lost these things occur. They have been occurring for millennia. That is the world you were born in, are living in and will die in.
The only question is what will you do?
 
Have a read about Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and Universal Basic Income (UBI). They are both being pushed by the same crowd and will work hand in glove when the crisis time comes and the people start begging for it. This combination will in the end deliver ultimate control to the elite even if it isn't using public-ledger green crypto (but it probably will be).

If you step out of line, you're cut off. Every transaction you make can feed into your Social Credit Score.
 
openeyes said:
That’s such great advise. None the less I think many people thinking collapse is going to happen soon and will be for a long time might be disappointed.
The US could have double the current debt they have now and the world would still go on. Sure the USD would be worth less but they would have kick the can along for quite while.
I think Phil Anderson has it right and we won’t see a major recession for another 5 or 6 years. Unemployment is simply too low. Downturns take time. There is still a lot of money on the sidelines waiting for the next 2008. That will prop things up for a bit longer.
Currently trade wars have barely scratched the surface.
One has to look at history to see the pattern of major collapse. It’s morphology. The infill that occurs. Fall of Rome being the classic. Fall of the British empire - still in progress. Fall of France, Portugal, even China and now China is resurgent.
A global collapse could occur if there was a new epidemic of incredible speed or a major asteroid hit or some other huge black swan. Silver will be useful for medical purposes but outside that in a catastrophic situation it will be the capability to personally survive that is truly valuable. Likelihood low but possible.
Financial collapse as in global collapse would take more than 100 years with multiple ups and lower lows but it would have to be combined with other factors like food shortages (like a major disease in rice and corn) or epidemics.
Just my two cents worth.
Click to expand...

Interesting read from late last year from openeyes

A global collapse could occur ....

Cheer$
 
Openeyes quotes “Phil Anderson” who “has it right” and we won’t see a major recession for another 5 or 6 years

This is the most enormous load of bullshit

Unfortunately in our lives there are people with very bad intentions that we have to recognise as such and then deal with

Almost every aspect of the “mainstream” is to hinder us that way
 
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I've been trying to get my mom to sell some shares since she is so stock heavy and has no metals.
Her investment guy is telling her she needs to just stay in "long term" and that she shouldnt sell, same as they always say.
I told her maybe take at least some of her winnings off the table, half or a third even?
Meanwhile her shares have dropped 25 percent almost and are already in a downturn.
She said she doesnt want to pay capitol gains but now shes already lost that much anyway. She could have sold and walked away with more than she has now.
I've been telling her for the last year to buy some gold and rebalance her portfolio but she only listens to her broker and now shes watching her gains dissolve into the ether.
I dont know how to convince her and she says "gold can go down too."
Shes been watching some youtube videos that I've sent her and has been asking me some about gold but she seems hesitant and is not really taking any steps.
I've talked to her quite a bit about it but then she talks to her broker and he calms her down.
 
I've a good friend whose good fortune and smart moves in the 80s gives him a million in bank and tech shares - well 2 weeks ago.

I told him I'd be turning half to cash then, and now he's dropped near 100k plus on paper. He's asked me move now or hold. I said move half. Don't know if he will but it's a conundrum. Watch a friend lose out, or possibly risk a friendship on financial advice.
 
1) If you bought masks in time = you're crazy
I bought masks at the beginning of February and my colleagues at work laughed me in the face. 10 days later almost all masks were sold out and one of them was literally begging me to give her "some". Nope! :D

2) If you tried to warn others about Corona = you're being hysterical
Other colleagues were laughing at the Corona virus, when I first mentioned it - some time at the beginning of February (mainstream and Social Media news readers, most of them), they put me down with arrogance, explaining "it's less dangerous than flu", "it is already decreasing", "it's just hysteria".

3) If you run to the shops to buy food and hygiene products in large quantities = "ha ha ha"
After so many bad experiences, I didn't tell many people about this, but people on the street literally LAUGHED at me while going to a supermarket with the mask.
A few hours later the shops were emptied... in a shop, a lady was almost crying (talking to her close ones): "there is not even a single spaghetti on the shelves, nothing!"

I still know people who laugh me in the face. They're so dumb, they aren't worth convincing. I can imagine their face when the supply chain gets interrupted and when they'll be scared to get out onto the streets.

Again - I tried warning some people, convincing them to buy at least a little. No, they shrugged me off.

What do these "shrugger sheeple" know? What makes them so "smart"?
No, ignorance is not bliss, it's STUPIDITY.

Next step: I think massive bank runs, bank holidays, negative interest rates will follow. Few people understand why. Those who don't won't understand, but no, it's not because of the Corona virus... but the economies are collapsing. Well, if it's not the Corona virus, then what? (I actually had this discussion about 48 hours ago with someone close to me). THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT HOW THE ECONOMY WORKS... and why it crashes.

Never explain complicated things that you can foretell to people you don't care a lot about. Family, close friends are OK. But even they are too naive.

It's like when Noah's Ark is leaving and the others are drunk and surfing on the waves. Noah didn't just take anyone aboard his boat either.
 
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Yeah I think it's mostly luck when they do well and then lack of education when they lose it again.
I'm going to keep pushing her to do something before it drops more. I'm sure we havent seen any bottom yet the way things are going.
I wish she would stop listening to her dang broker. He doesnt want her to pull anything out for obvious reasons.
She told me that if she doesnt make money then he doesnt either. She has no clue how it really works.
 
JohnnyBravo300 said:
Yeah I think it's mostly luck when they do well and then lack of education when they lose it again.
I'm going to keep pushing her to do something before it drops more. I'm sure we havent seen any bottom yet the way things are going.
I wish she would stop listening to her dang broker. He doesnt want her to pull anything out for obvious reasons.
She told me that if she doesnt make money then he doesnt either. She has no clue how it really works.
Click to expand...

Brokers are essentially sneaky sales reps. They want to make money, even when you lose.

I hope you manage to convince her and save her remaining funds. The word "broke" comes from "broker" - because they make your go broke :)
 
Yeah, a broker with the financially illiterate is like a Personal Trainer with obese clients. Doesn’t take much to make them feel something. There’s skill in pretending to be a friend :rolleyes:
 
JohnnyBravo300 said:
I've been trying to get my mom to sell some shares since she is so stock heavy and has no metals.
Her investment guy is telling her she needs to just stay in "long term" and that she shouldnt sell, same as they always say.
I told her maybe take at least some of her winnings off the table, half or a third even?
Meanwhile her shares have dropped 25 percent almost and are already in a downturn.
She said she doesnt want to pay capitol gains but now shes already lost that much anyway. She could have sold and walked away with more than she has now.
I've been telling her for the last year to buy some gold and rebalance her portfolio but she only listens to her broker and now shes watching her gains dissolve into the ether.
I dont know how to convince her and she says "gold can go down too."
Shes been watching some youtube videos that I've sent her and has been asking me some about gold but she seems hesitant and is not really taking any steps.
I've talked to her quite a bit about it but then she talks to her broker and he calms her down.
Click to expand...
you mum shouldnt listen to you she is doing the right thing
 
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