China’s subsidisation of its industries benefitted its customers, ie Australia and the USA at the expense of its own citizens. Trump’s brain fart will now come at the expense of its citizens, as too China’s retaliatory brain fart.
Trade Wars
- Thread starter JulieW
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China’s subsidisation of its industries benefitted its customers, ie Australia and the USA at the expense of its own citizens. Trump’s brain fart will now come at the expense of its citizens, as too China’s retaliatory brain fart.
That feeling you have, when everyone says Trump is an idiot and deep down, you know they’re right:
US government/ Trump is just as bad as China's government/ Xi Jinping. Just that I don't have a childish team mentality where if one team does something it's ok and when the other does it's not. They are both idiots!
I just understand Causality well (cause and effect) and it's pointless to say it's all one sides fault. Both China and America have caused this to happen. Both heavily interfere with markets.
The only time there will be free markets is when all government piss off and just allow people to buy and sell without the need of tariffs and subsidies. But this will never happen, so there will never be "free" markets.
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Again, you’re misrepresenting me.
But at least something good has come of this little exchange, you agree with me that Trump is an idiot.
My rant is more of a general rant then being directed at you. I'm just sick of hearing everyone and MSM think Trump alone is the cause of all issues in the world today. Like i said i HATE team mentality.
Same, I much prefer having Trump in the White House than Clinton and the rest of the professional politicians on both sides. Just wish he would listen to his advisors more - well the non-idiotic ones anyway. 
Same, I much prefer having Trump in the White House than Clinton and the rest of the professional politicians on both sides. Just wish he would listen to his advisors more - well the non-idiotic ones anyway.
I wish all modern day president/ prime minister would listen more and did what was in the best interest of the people that elected them. Wishful thinking
(Though Xi Jinping elected himself president for life so the Chinese people don't even have the illusion of choice anymore)
harry_mr
Active Member
The early 80s saw a technological revolution called the personal computer, it changed every aspect of the world. The analogue world changed to digital. Paper ledgers were converted to electronic data, manual tasks were computerised, every home and business needed a computer and the US was at the forefront of it. By the late 90's early 2000s the PC revolution had all but run out of steam, the world had become saturated with computers and the uptake slowed to mostly upgrades from an older model. It was devised to export USA inflation along went its manufacturing jobs to the third world with its lower wages and China had an enormous population living below their poverty line that could do the dirty job of manufacturing while the brains remained in the USA. Americans loved these new affordable trinkets, but now the workers have woken up and (via trump) he/they want their jobs back. China grew up very quickly and now develops some of its own technology as well as manufactures for the world. I have no doubt trump benefited from cheaper manufacturing of his resorts and those original architects of the US-China deal have long left the party and retired in the Caribbean.
nonrecourse
Well-Known Member
Like Howard? You mean our last genuine Liberal Prime Minster who left a 20 Billion dollar surplus and dragged the stevedoring operations into the 21 century?
The US now has a shortage of labour because companies are hiring and 3 trillion dollars of offshore money flowing back into the US because the corporate tax rate has been reduced to 21%. Pure Laffer curve economics just like Regan.
And the Chinese are upset that they can no longer expropriate american technology under the guise of free trade.
The Mexicans are upset because the people smugglers are out of business and all the unemployed in Mexico can no longer go to the US and send back money to their families, terrible for their balance of trade.
The US now has a shortage of labour because companies are hiring and 3 trillion dollars of offshore money flowing back into the US because the corporate tax rate has been reduced to 21%. Pure Laffer curve economics just like Regan.
And the Chinese are upset that they can no longer expropriate american technology under the guise of free trade.
The Mexicans are upset because the people smugglers are out of business and all the unemployed in Mexico can no longer go to the US and send back money to their families, terrible for their balance of trade.
Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
No, the "unkind society" crap has come from all the leftist BS here. The old time common mantra was that Republicans are evil. As a young democrat I believed that too. Nowadays it is clear which side is worse for society. Don't believe me, have a looky at Euroland. What's going on there today is from leftist policies, not right wing.
Right wing might want to save your soul (per their views), but leftists want to control everything you do, along with the debate, news, media, etc., and if you oppose them, they destroy your name, business, etc.
Here in the US the leftists have everyone fighting. Before Obummer, "racial" incidents (that brought criminal complaints) were fairly rare (compared to past times). Once Obummer stoked the race fires after some justified shootings (according to jurors) of blacks committing felonies, all hell broke loose (Michael Brown, Trayvon "if I had a son- said Obama" Martin).
The old "lefties are nicer than republicans" line is far more outdated than the Reagan "what seemed comfortable" time period.
I don't know this for sure, but I am guessing Oz has been somewhat insulated from the rest of the leftist crap going on in Euroland and the US? Unfortunately, it won't be that way forever. The elite leftist machine goes from country to country bringing destruction to once great countries. Even the most left leftist can't defend what they are doing to Euroland right now. Once you all start seeing it happen there you'll know I am correct, even if you don't want to admit it because it challenges false notions you might possess.
PS As much as I detest leftists, I am not a republican, although I would prefer to live in the same community as them vs. leftists any day.
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Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
^^^Great points!!
Folks keep going after Trump for his trade policies, and always ignore the unfair trade deals in place, especially when it comes to China. Everyone wants to see the US fall so when the US (now under Trump) tries to get back to a more fair stance, everyone bitches about it.
It should be clear that past US presidents were not looking out for the US but serving some other master? - Clinton, both Bush idiots, Comrade Obummer. Say what you want about Trump's negotiation tactics, at least he's doing something for the US. Anyone who knows anything about negotiation knows that certain cultures don't see "compromise" the same way the west does. Some see it as weakness. I know this from business dealings with some from such places. They respond to strength much better, then a compromise can be reached.
Look at North Korea now.... All the other idiot presidents simply gave them money for nothing. Trump has gotten Kim's attention without any casualties, whether the anti US folks like it or not.
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Where I agree with Trump completely is that he seems to want to reduce the vast flood of US research and design and technical knowledge being mined by China and subsequently being used against the US and it’s businesses and eventually it’s military.
Like what?
Yes, lowering the corporate tax rate was good for the US because it lowers the cost of production and therefore consumption - and the end goal of all production is not jobs but consumption.
No, raising barriers to trade is bad for the US because it raises the cost of production and therefore consumption - and the end goal of all production is not jobs but consumption.
Trump is doing exactly what Obama did when he was in office, imposing tariffs to protect archaic, uneconomical industries. These few thousand jobs that Trump is saving in the domestic steel-making industry come at a far greater cost to consumers than the return on their investment. It's dumb, plain dumb. Trump supporters should stop praising him for his rhetoric about making America great again because it's absolute BS and hold him to task. Obama has gone and Trump shouldn't be repeating the mistakes of that administration.
... and thereby driving down the cost of production for consumers which gives them more $$ to spend on satisfying other needs and desires which enhances prosperity for all.
http://www.prosperity.com/feed/key-findings-brief
Without any proof I'd say that China's disregard of IP laws may have had something to do with the increasing prosperity we have witnessed, so well done Chinese businesses and tough titties to those US businesses that have attempted to hide behind the skirt of rent-seeking legislation.
Not according to China, that's why they build cites that will never be used (not to full capacity at least) Just to create jobs. You have to let go of these old ideologies mate, they work great on paper, but in the real world people act irrationally.
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Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
Thanks to Trump's negotiating tactics, eventually new agreements will be made with China that are more fair to the US than what has been status quo for a while.
Just like the $hitty NAFTA deal that is soon to be changed to be more fair.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trudeau-sees-high-chance-nafta-deal-us-mexico-144446247.html
I don't have an issue with China on this one. I see it as a choice both sides make to get something both sides do and do not want.
US companies go to China to take advantage of their cheap labor and non existent environmental laws and China take advantage of the US companies knowledge. Both sides accept the pros and cons. China doesn't want their people and environment getting abused any more then US companies want their IP taken. But at then end of the day money takes preference.
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Did I say China's policies were sound?
Most governments of the world are guilty of the misguided view that jobs are the end goal of all production, including our own.
And what old ideologies are those to which you refer? Sound economic principles as laid down over the past 250 years by highly regarded economists?
As far as acting irrationally, the only theory I'm aware of that states implicitly that humans act in a logical manner is the one around Homo economicus, which at least got it half right with its acknowledgement that individuals pursue their subjectively-oriented goals. In the field of economics, the term rational means "with purpose", "not with reasonableness".
What's unfair about the current trade agreements with China? What's wrong with NAFTA? The US has benefited enormously from both.
Did i say you said China's policies are sound?Did I say China's policies were sound?
You said
I just made observational reference to show that statement is no longer true in the world today. So you should say "the end goal of all production should not be jobs but consumption"
I never said the ideas are not sound, just that most people are idiots and don't listen to good advice. Thus they work good on paper where you don't have to account for people being stupid.
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