Too Big to Prosecute - CBA/Bankwest fraud Senate Inquiry video

nonrecourse said:
Yippe-Ki-Ya said:
NR - Do you really believe that "trust stuctures" can protect your assets from the thieving gubmint?

They look straight past the trust stucture into who actually runs the trust - and if your name is on their hitlist - then the trust's assets are also fair game to them.

If not - they simply change the rules to close down any loopholes...

SAVVVIE??
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Yippe the answer is all our politicians are Lawyers and all members of Parliament have Trusts For their pecuniary interests to avoid being charged with obtaining financial advantage they all have blind trusts. Even the Green and Labor faries at the bottom of the garden who have never done a real days work have family and unit/hybrid trusts.

As for closing down loopholes our tax and financial laws are so complex even the action of closing something down creates more opportunities.

Frankly trust and tax law is a huge chess game with the arbitrator being the courts. Much to the chargin of the ATO the courts don't always agree with them.

For little gadfly's like you and I you never want to get into the ring with that 900 pound gorilla called the ATO but with the internet and if you have the desire there is a hell of a lot you can do in steering your goodship fortune.

Kind Regards
non recourse
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I agree with both of you on this. NR initially (target all other lower hanging fruit first) and then if things get bad enough 100% with Yip).
 
nonrecourse said:
Auspm said:
Mind you, I'd be interested to see where you'd find the capital to back your funding if you were just starting today, mostly we're told by serious IP investors that you have to start at the bottom and build an equity base first?

A minor oversight in the assumption here I think that pretty much anyone who's just starting out (ie no capital, cash or credit) are just going to jump right into the top tier property market, for which you're likely to have to find credit in the order of 7 figures first.

I really don't think people who have been establishing an equity position literally over decades really give credit for just how damn tough it is out there right now just to make ends meet, yet alone have the time / ability to seriously build on it to get ahead.

Not being argumentative on the point, but just stating the facts. Things are tough out there right now!
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I started in our business on December the 18th 1991 and you could fire a cannon down the main street and not hit anyone. You want to talk about tough times? My first customer didn't walk in the door for two weeks.

The second year our business was going backwards and the wife had just had our second child she had 4 weeks off to look after the new baby and I will never forget her bursting into tears when I said you have to go back to full time work we can't survive without your income.

I was working 7 days a week and the first three years her wage was what we survived on. There was no maternity leave or carers leave.

During the good times when we were buying properties with our ears pasted back my wife kept reminding me everything goes in cycles

Your going to see interest rates and inflation at 20% in the next five years that is just the cycle. Would I trade everything to go back to age 32 with the wife and kids knowing what I know and that ? Bloody oath.

Problem with most employees is they have been institutionalised. They are use to being on the tread mill. How many people do you know who worked for a boss chucked it in went to work for themselves and went bust? I know heaps.

Why because they are fiscally illiterate.

Kind Regards
non recourse
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Sounds like your Mrs kept you on the straight and narrow when the times were tough - a good woman by the sounds of it.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to remain on the 9-5 treadmill for life (I certainly don't), but there's a lot to take in and consider when you're sitting at your desk and paying the weekly bills as opposed to striking out on your own.

From what you said, the first year and a bit you were DINKS and both working when many people were struggling to find a simple job - that definitely would have made a big difference and whilst I know times were tough back then (I worked through the recession too), there's no doubt that it's all situation and dependent on personal circumstances.

Sounds like you both put your nose to the grindstone, took a few risks when you could with some ingenuity and effort and it paid off well in the end.
 
Auspm said:
[Sounds like your Mrs kept you on the straight and narrow when the times were tough - a good woman by the sounds of it.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to remain on the 9-5 treadmill for life (I certainly don't), but there's a lot to take in and consider when you're sitting at your desk and paying the weekly bills as opposed to striking out on your own.

From what you said, the first year and a bit you were DINKS and both working when many people were struggling to find a simple job - that definitely would have made a big difference and whilst I know times were tough back then (I worked through the recession too), there's no doubt that it's all situation and dependent on personal circumstances.

Sounds like you both put your nose to the grindstone, took a few risks when you could with some ingenuity and effort and it paid off well in the end.
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A DINK :lol: is double income NO KIDS. The reason why we succeeded is because we both love what we do. The secret is finding your niche and going for it. Renovator and I are worlds apart in what we each do. The commonality is we have both found our niche.

Again it gets down to you the individual making it work for you. We all have clay feet. If you fail just pick yourself up and go again. You learn much more from your failures than your wins. If you look at many of the uber rich often they have been bankrupted a number of times.

The employee mentality is just an extension of your school training that to make mistakes is bad. What is bad is not experiencing trial and error because of what might happen. By all means be aware but take calculated risks. If your motivation is just money you will fail.

Kind Regards
non recourse
 
By all means be aware but take calculated risks.
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Coming back to the crux of the matter, I think this is what it's all about at all levels now.

Big banks look at risk/reward I'd assume in a similar matter, except that the price of their failure is passed on to others.

The complete lack of accountability for failure in the banking/financial sectors has simply opened up systemic risk as a business paradigm because let's face it, when the big players do it... there's really no risk at all, is there?

Heads they win & split the profits with Govt.
Tails they get their money back & pass the bill to the tax payer to bail them out.

It misallocates capital into riskier investments that's more akin to gambling than true investment based on risk/reward, is it not?

Is that really capitalism at play or just crony capitalism?

So coming back to your point on trial and error NR, it would seem the big wigs in the market are taking a similar approach - except when they make an 'error', they don't have to pay the price of failure. They just hold a gun to the government's head and say bail us out or we'll crash your economy.

That's not capitalism and here in lies the path to economic destruction.
 
We have cycles, sure, but the world economic meltdown is non-cyclic (secular) and encompasses and influences all of these cycles.

To blindly believe in cycles, like some form of economic karma, is just ignorant in my opinion.

And for what it is worth, I do not think we'll get 20% interest rates. That 'trick' was used to save confidence in the USD, but there's no saving it now.

We're in new territory (at least since 80+ years ago). We'd be better off with a recession than the destructive volatility that lies ahead of us (and currently being experienced).
 
Dogmatix said:
We have cycles, sure, but the world economic meltdown is non-cyclic (secular) and encompasses and influences all of these cycles.

To blindly believe in cycles, like some form of economic karma, is just ignorant in my opinion.

And for what it is worth, I do not think we'll get 20% interest rates. That 'trick' was used to save confidence in the USD, but there's no saving it now.

We're in new territory (at least since 80+ years ago). We'd be better off with a recession than the destructive volatility that lies ahead of us (and currently being experienced).
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We can agree to disagree. My take is all those fresh $50 and $100 dollar notes means just one thing. The debasement of fiat. That means hyper inflation. No one believes the current inflation figures, you only have to look at utility and food bills to realise we are already part way down that slippery slope.

That is the real reason most of you are on this site no? Gold and silver is a store of your wealth. Where we disagree is I do not view bullion as an investment but rather as a hedge to sustain my real weath the income generating REAL Estate.

Kind Regards
non recourse
 
^ hyperinflation...

Yet you expect interest rates to go to 20% like the 80/90's, right?

We're in a whole different world compared to that period of time. 20% interest rates would be inconsequential under hyperinflation... That's more like negative real interest rates. I doubt anyone on here has experienced the likes of that. What rationale do you offer?

Edit: Incidentally we both use PMs as a hedge, I just dont receive my income through real estate.
 
^ ditto to that

Interested to watch the next parts if there is more coming

Edit: embedded the video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7lwTwbLlII[/youtube]
 
OMG! :O

3:42 - ..FOS need the permission of the receiver before they can investigate any misconduct complaint against the receiver. :P
 
hiho said:
Any guesses on the outcome of this?
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A bunch of new (but still useless) regulators like ASIC. At least FOS may get additional powers to act on complaints (although it is probably a can of worms as legitimate receivers will presumably have to deal with far more unwarranted gripes).

In the process of getting a bunch of additional useless regulators we'll probably get the privilege of footing the bills for two dozen consulting reports and cost benefit studies looking into closing each loophole. So, wouldn't expect much until 2014/2015 (probably the latter as the senate committee won't have a report until part way through next year's sitting and the time to draw up legislation and the like will push out any parliamentary enacted changes until after the election, which if Libs get in may even be delayed until 2016 as they focus on other stuff first).

The "unconscionable conduct" phrase will no doubt be getting serious scrutiny.


More importantly for the current victims, however, I fail to see what proper compensation the inquiry or courts can possibly obtain once most of the assets have been bled dry or on sold. Especially given the massive delay tactics that CBA can and will continue to do.
 
can someone explained to me why bankwest deliberately under valued people's assets - how does this trigger a default?

edit: ill take a shot...
since the property is collateral there is some clause stipulating if the value of it was to drop below a certain % of the loan the borrows default or pay it all back

another question, what will come of this? will the victims get anything back? will CBA be fined? will certain people be locked away?

more importantly, what will happen to the CBA share price. what will happen to australian's supers and the economy if the share price was to be dramatically effected. is it in the govt's best interest to act in such a way which will NOT negatively influence CBA's value?
 
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