Toning on Lunar Mouse series 2

D

DavePanda

New Member
Hi from the UK.

I was hoping someone could tell me if toning on these coins on the Queens head side is common or if I have just been unlucky.

I have lots of the mice coins, together with lots of other Perth mint coins, Kooks and Lunar series 2s, all stored together, on examination 100 Mice coins all are showing toning around the rim of the Queens head side, no others are, also none of the re-issued Mice coins that I purchased have either. Now I am aware that Silver tones, however I have plenty of coins stored with these that have no toning whatsover, including older Kookaburras.

What I have noted on these coins is that the capsule when very slight pressure applied in a turning motion spins, none of the other coins do this, I am convinced this must be the reason and the capsules are not airtight.

I can feel a very slight difference in the capsule from the reissued mice to the original now toned mice coins, to an extenct that I can tell the difference with my eyes closed! (When you have practiced it it doesnt sound so crazy!!)

I have asked the Perth mint to comment, I did this originally but got no reply, last week I resent the following email and got a helpful reply.


"Hi
I have looked at my collection of 1oz Lunar Mouse coins series 2 today, to my dismay they all have capsules that are not as tight as the other years (I have lots of your coins from this series) the Queens head side on every one of these coins has started toning around the edge, this has not happened on the large amount of Ox I have had stored alongside them for years, I am sure that there is an issue with the design of these capsules, I am hoping that you could replace or sell me 1oz series 2 capsules to preserve these coins into the future.

Many thanks"



The reply from Pauline was...


"Thank you for your email.

The capsule on the coins is our standard capsule that is in use today.

We have no other capsule.

Tarnish is a natural process of pure silver. This will not devalue the coins in any way the coins are sold according to the precious metals pricing as they are not collectors items. Even in the case of 'collectors' coins we advis, as do dealers, to not clean the coins.



I am sorry we are unable to assist with your request."









My reply........................



Hi Pauline

Thank you very much for your reply.

I appreciate your comments re toning.. I am a collector of Pandas and Perth mint and have been so for many years, I am fully aware of long term toning on coins, for info I dont intend cleaning the coins, just preventing further toning, I have lots of Kookaburras in the round capsule, no toning, going back to 2002, I have as stated, large amounts of Lunar series 2, no toning, however everyone of the Mice capsules spin, when gently turned top against bottom, none of my other Lunar series capsules do, I am sure that this cannot be coincidence, I would appreciate any input on this that you may have.

Many thanks
Regards









I have received no reply as of yet, Pauline responded to the initial enquiry very quickly to her credit.







For info these coins came new sealed in Rolls when purchased, all I have done is the same as the other coins, removed them from their sealed roll, never opened the capsule or treated in anyway differently than any of the others..


Please could someone tell me if I was just unlucky, if I am been unreasonable or has any one else noted this?


Many thanks
Regards
Dave
 
Hi Dave and welcome to Silver Stackers

Rim toning on some Perth Mint S2 lunars is common, I've seen it mostly happening on the mice and Rabbits, note that most of the mice coins are remints from 2011 if I'm not mistaken so they've been minted around the same period as the Rabbits.

The original PM capsules are obviously not airtite, the only efficient way I can see of efficiently preventing toning from forming on these coins is to vacuum seal them, I've got several rolls stored this way for quite long time and they all are looking good so far.
 
Thank you very much for your welcome, like many, long time reader, first time poster, also many thanks for the information.

I do have plenty of Rabbits, none of these are toned, however your explanation confirms that others have noted this also, do you think that the other years coins are airtite, i.e the Ox? I have lots of these and none are toned whatsover, it appears that the mint is not aware of the issue or they dont want to admit the issue?

Cheers
Regards
Dave
 
Welcome to the forum Dave.

Unfortunately that's just how it is with silver coins. You can try your best to store them in anti tarnish bags or airtight containers.
 
Yes, it appears that we silver collectors need to do everything in our human power to prevent spots and toning. Although, I'm less concerned about toning vs. spots. I think another way to secure from unwanted issues happening to your coin is buy some coin armour bags. I buy lots of rolls, and can put them nicely inside either the 8 x 11 or the medium size bags. I need to invest in a vaccum sealer. Anyone have any recommendations in the u.s.? I'm going shoping righ now. :-)
 
Well it seems others have toning issues too, I totally understand the fact Silver tones, however why only my Mouse coins? Stored alongside Ox,Rabbit,Tiger for certainly in the case of the Ox the same time frame and these are the only capsules that spin and only ones to have toned.

I am convinced I had a bad batch of capsules, it surely cannot be anything else.. If anyone has toned edge Lunars would you kindly see if they too also dont grip and thus spin if small amount of pressure applied please.

Pauline has got back to my resubmitted email..

"Sorry, I had onforwarded your email to our fulfilment division for further information but had not followed through.

I will talk with them in the morning"


Hopefully some light will be shone on the issue


Cheers for your help and advice


I will report back the findings.

Regards
Dave
 
I have 1 oz Lunar 2 Mice and I sealed them all soon after purchase just as I have sealed all my silver coins shortly after purchase. I learned early on in stacking that silver tarnishes and so that's why I seal all my silver coins as soon after purchase as possible.

I think to prevent further toning, you should seal immediately and you may even want to keep desiccant in the place you store your sealed coins.



.
 
Either PM is lieing or they do not know what their capsupplier is doing.
If you put a roll Tiger or Oxen onto a scale it is lower than 810 gr.
Also if you are shacking these two there is only a very low rattling to hear.

The weight of all other Years is a bit higher, around 820-825gr.
If you shake these ones the rattle is a bit louder.

Conclusion - the caps must be different into the inside design.
The lenght of all rolls is the same.

What would be good to know if someones has a roll originally from 2008 (Mouse) to put it onto the scale.
For sure it is lower than 810gr.
Die 2008 mouse which was produced in 2011 are all higher than 815 gr and rattle louder than 2009 and 2010.

Any Thoughts ?

No problem with early Mouse,Tiger and Ox ?
 
Why the Queen's head side only though...that seems to be a mystery. But no matter what year Lunar coins I have, I always seal effectively in non-reactive plastic upon receipt (and after the coins pass my visual examination) of coins. I do this since I know that the beloved silver luster is very susceptible to the elements and I want to keep that luster in tact for as many years or decades as possible...so i seal them up.



.
 
Do not want to make advertising for Ama***
This is the perfekt tool to seal your coins.

http://www.amazon.com/CASO-Germany-VC10-Vacuum-Sealer/dp/B009YF6NIU

1344_image.jpg
 
I have a handful of 2008 mice with no discernible tone to them. No special storage either. Ca pulses seem tight.
 
:-( Bought three gilded mouse coins and two have toning issues and one has minor milky spot............all on queen side!!!

I don't have any issues with other SII coins and no problem with SI coins.
 
Thanks for your post DavePanda, I recognise your name from another forum :D or maybe just coincidence.

Very informative post and strange as to why toning is appearing only on the mouse coins. The capsules may well be different despite Perth Mints official response. I would advise putting them in air-tite tubes, and then if your paranoid coin armour bags. I know barsenault goes a step further and then vacuums seals :D
 
Yepper, and boy do I have peace of mind in shutting out air and moisture, when and if I go to sell years down the road. hehehe. W
 
I have sold about 200 mice in the last few months to Provident and Apmex. I know the coins have all been examined closely and no one has mentioned any toning.
 
no need to worry if you found some toned coins as Pauline said these are not collectors item and wont devalue the coin in any way :lol:
 
DavePanda said:
all I have done is the same as the other coins, removed them from their sealed roll, ..
Click to expand...

I always leave them in sealed rolls and all my coins look fine, why would you remove them?
 
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