Toning of coins/medals. Is that more valuable or less valuable?

andrewlee10

andrewlee10

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
I would like to bring the attention of the toning of coins/medals. Is that more valuable or less valuable after toning?

Toning can be naturally or artificial.

This is article of Gainesville about toning which states that many kinds of toning occur naturally as a coin ages, avid collectors actually prefer toned coins. Since this discoloration can increase a coin's value, many dealers will attempt to replicate these effects to make coins appear to look like a Rainbow Toned Morgan Dollar.

http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/tips/48/signs-of-artificial-toning-on-coins.aspx

Another good article about toning which states advance collectors love toning rather than beginner collectors. This is support by former ANA president "People buy the color, experience, life of the coin, not just the technical grade," says Bob Campbell, former ANA president and coin dealer who sells toned coins. "Beginning collectors like blazing white coins. More advanced collectors like beautifully toned coins."

http://coinsguide.reidgold.com/toning.html

I do not like white spot BUT natural appropriate toning is valuable for me BUT might by a junk to others. :lol: Always personal preference.
 
Toning is the same as tarnish. Tarnish is a layer of corrosion caused by oxygen and chemicals attacking the surface of the coin.

Whether someone likes tarnish on their coin or not is completely subjective and personal.

Personally, I don't want to see a speck of tarnish on my silver coins and medals. If there are two of the same coins that I could choose from and the only difference is one has tarnish and the other not, I will definitely choose the one that has no tarnish.

With old uncleaned / unrestored coins more than about 80 years old or older, there's bound to be some amount of tarnish on the coin.

So for me, thumbs down for toning/tarnish.



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Speaking from my experience it is true, toned coins have a marked increase in value. I sell lots of toned silver eagles at multiples of the price they would have attained if they were untoned. One thing I like about toned coins is the uniqueness of it all. Each one truly becomes a one of a kind as they tone differently. The variety is endless and it keeps things interesting for me. I collect and enjoy them but it is true that it takes some time to come to appreciate and desire tone on a coin.
 
Not just coins... it applies to older bars too.

Natural toning can add some unique character to a bullion coin or bar. You may not appreciate it on all your silver, but it's nice to have one or two examples of the effects of time and the environment on a coin or bar. Note that this is entirely different to the garish candy rainbow of artificial toning.

Natural toning often produces a certain transient beauty that can be hard to grasp or articulate. It's very individual, and will change over time. Nothing lasts forever.


Here's some bars I have with various types of toning/tarnish/

12844_img_2336sides.jpg


12844_img_2318s.jpg


12844_img_2319a.jpg


12844_img_2336s.jpg


12844_img_3020aa.jpg


12844_img_3025aa.jpg


From another thread:

Skyrocket said:
SilverPete said:
Hi Danman, I have one very similar to the ones on the left. We are bar brothers :)
Click to expand...



That bar looks ugly yet beautiful at the same time. I like it!
Click to expand...
Exactly! There's beauty in its imperfection. I think it was another member, maybe 1for1, who pointed out the Japanese concept of wabi sabi:

Wabi-sabi represents a comprehensive Japanese world view or aesthetic centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete". It is a concept derived from the Buddhist teaching of the three marks of existence ( sanbin?), specifically impermanence ( muj?), the other two being suffering ( ku?) and emptiness or absence of self-nature ( k?).

Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity (roughness or irregularity), simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and appreciation of the ingenuous integrity of natural objects and processes.
Click to expand...
 
Usually depends on the type of toning, as long as the toning is nice and even with nice colors, yes more valuable. If its ugly toning, no. less valuable
 
Since we are talking toning, does polishing bars diminish its value like coins?

I prefer mine to be pristine, however having looked up some toned coins I admit some do look nice.

Will I pay more, maybe if I saw a really nice toned coin that I liked. But I wouldn't as yet pay a premium for a roll of 20 rainbow ASE
 
Ipv6Ready said:
Since we are talking toning, does polishing bars diminish its value like coins?

I prefer mine to be pristine, however having looked up some toned coins I admit some do look nice.

Will I pay more, maybe if I saw a really nice toned coin that I liked. But I wouldn't as yet pay a premium for a roll of 20 rainbow ASE
Click to expand...


I don't think it makes any sense to polish a bar because if it's a generic bar, no one should care that it has tarnish because such bars are only always a spot play and if it's a collectable bar, you probably don't want to mess with it. For me, generic bars are always a spot play. Some art bars I would pay a premium unless it's obvious that it has been polished.




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Here are a couple of my personal favorites from my collection:

1992 Silver Eagle PCGS MS67






Mexican Silver Libertad 1985 PCGS MS66



 
mtforpar said:
Here are a couple of my personal favorites from my collection:

...
Click to expand...


Utterly disgusting, mt! :mad:


We should get together sometime for a little party..

We'll supply the coins, and mmissing can bring his slab-crackers & a couple jars of dip. He'll fix us right up! ;)





I should note, though, that I like my 60-something rainbows a little bit older.. :P


14291_1881_rainbow_morgan_1_ss.jpg



14291_1913_prussia_psych_small.jpg




But I'm also not necessarily averse to some circulated greys, either.. :cool:


14291_1750_rouble_2_s.jpg



14291_1832_capped_bust_half_1.jpg
 
The rainbow toning, over the years as toning develops does it turn ugly black tarnish?

And how long is that transition decades?
 
Ipv6Ready said:
The rainbow toning, over the years as toning develops does it turn ugly black tarnish?

And how long is that transition decades?
Click to expand...

The rainbow of the 1881 Morgan is due to "bag toning" -- sat in a canvas sack in just the right spot with a bunch of other Morgans, inside a bank vault for who knows how many years/decades.

Obviously since been removed from the toning source.


I'll let you know in another 135 years if it eventually turns black.

Be sure to bookmark this thread.. ;)
 
Yes, I believe colored tarnish eventually all turns much darker. I'm sure this can be tested by significantly speeding up the process in a controlled enviroinment and looking at the results along the way.



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mmissinglink said:
Yes, I believe colored tarnish eventually all turns much darker. I'm sure this can be tested by significantly speeding up the process in a controlled enviroinment and looking at the results along the way.
Click to expand...

Whoa, whoa, whoa.. Settle down, there, guy!

I've heard some pretty wild stories about your infamous coin-dipping parties, but please.. This is a family-oriented forum! ;)


In all seriousness, I think slabbing a coin in order to help preserve its toning (among other things) is going above & beyond what used to be done yesteryear.

Obviously slabbed coins still can & do tone further, but typically that rate is slowed dramatically. I think coins that are slabbed have a good future ahead of them, as long as nothing goes too seriously wrong (fire, flood, excessive humidity going unchecked, etc.).


Part of the reason why some might see some really dark old coins these days is to remember how they might have been handled & stored decades & even centuries ago. Acrylic slabs & air-tites? Pffft.. No such thing back then. (And yes, I realize coins can still tone inside air-tites -- but likely not to that degree.)

Probably just some dude puffing away on a tobacco pipe as he admired his raw coins, then put them back in their leather pouch or whatever. Perhaps some of the wealthier guys had a mahogany coin cabinet or two.. But even they didn't have none of them there fancy anti-tarnish bags that's all the rage these days.


Anyway, my 1881 rainbow Morgan (pictured above) has yet to blacken after all this time since it's initial bag-toning. Why not? Will it? And when? And what, exactly, will cause it?

Heck, it could stay that way for another 300 years, unchanged -- perhaps until one of Cull Silver's descendants ( :lol: ) decides to crack it out of its then-slab, suddenly & significantly changing its toning almost overnight as it's exposed to the swamp-gas air around his home.. :o

Would be a shame, but sh|t happens in the numi world..


P.S. Old circulated coins? I've read that oftentimes oils from a human hand long ago can actually form a protective barrier on these, basically sealing in the existing toning, and sealing *out* any new toning. How true that is, I suppose there are a variety of factors.


P.P.S. Wasn't this thread about toned *Chinese* coins?? Sorry, don't have any. Maybe an old Japanese yen, but that's about it. Do antiqued Chinese medals count? I may or may not have a couple of those tucked away somewhere in the ol' SDB.. :D
 
Gatito Bandito said:
mmissinglink said:
Yes, I believe colored tarnish eventually all turns much darker. I'm sure this can be tested by significantly speeding up the process in a controlled enviroinment and looking at the results along the way.
Click to expand...

Whoa, whoa, whoa.. Settle down, there, guy!

I've heard some pretty wild stories about your infamous coin-dipping parties, but please.. This is a family-oriented forum! ;)


In all seriousness, I think slabbing a coin in order to help preserve its toning (among other things) is going above & beyond what used to be done yesteryear.

Obviously slabbed coins still can & do tone further, but typically that rate is slowed dramatically. I think coins that are slabbed have a good future ahead of them, as long as nothing goes too seriously wrong (fire, flood, excessive humidity going unchecked, etc.).


Part of the reason why some might see some really dark old coins these days is to remember how they might have been handled & stored decades & even centuries ago. Acrylic slabs & air-tites? Pffft.. No such thing back then. (And yes, I realize coins can still tone inside air-tites -- but likely not to that degree.)

Probably just some dude puffing away on a tobacco pipe as he admired his raw coins, then put them back in their leather pouch or whatever. Perhaps some of the wealthier guys had a mahogany coin cabinet or two.. But even they didn't have none of them there fancy anti-tarnish bags that's all the rage these days.


Anyway, my 1881 rainbow Morgan (pictured above) has yet to blacken after all this time since it's initial bag-toning. Why not? Will it? And when? And what, exactly, will cause it?

Heck, it could stay that way for another 300 years, unchanged -- perhaps until one of Cull Silver's descendants ( :lol: ) decides to crack it out of its then-slab, suddenly & significantly changing its toning almost overnight as it's exposed to the swamp-gas air around his home.. :o

Would be a shame, but sh|t happens in the numi world..


P.S. Old circulated coins? I've read that oftentimes oils from a human hand long ago can actually form a protective barrier on these, basically sealing in the existing toning, and sealing *out* any new toning. How true that is, I suppose there are a variety of factors.


P.P.S. Wasn't this thread about toned *Chinese* coins?? Sorry, don't have any. Maybe an old Japanese yen, but that's about it. Do antiqued Chinese medals count? I may or may not have a couple of those tucked away somewhere in the ol' SDB.. :D
Click to expand...

As long as toning artificial or nature are welcoming lol
 
In terms of tarnish going from a light colorful pleasant looking color to a darkened color, the important question isn't so much that the coin has pleasant light colorful tarnish now but how quickly can it go from that to a dark tarnish.

That's why I suggested an experiment in a controlled atmosphere.

I'm not necessarily suggesting Gatito use his 1881 Morgan and his 1913 Wilhelm II Kaiser coin, but heck, why not....at least then we might finally have a definitive answer. ;)

And besides, when those coins do get blackened in a few weeks, I could show you how to properly dip them clean so that you can get it ready for the next round of colorful surface corrosion...oh, I mean tarnish....ooops, I meant "toning". :lol: Second time time around is a charm they say. :P




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Another toning pattern I have grown quite fond of is the PCI slabbed Eagles. I don't put any weight on the grade but I do like the toning pattern their holders create. Here is one I picked up recently.

2004 Silver Eagle PCI MS70



 
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