Thinking of changing

Goldmember

Goldmember

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Gday guys,ive been reading about SMSF, and was wondering do you think its a good idea for a fund that only has about $50,000 in it....at the moment i have no contributions happening...and probably not much in the future bcoz of my circumstances.

Would the fees/storage/muckin around/ be too much do you think to make it worthwhile?

When it comes time to sell,just thinking how do you go about offloading the bullion?...is it and Ebay job? Any ideas what happens there?
Or does anybody know a good super fund that allows me to part invest in PHYSICAL bullion?

Thinking of getting into Esuper

Thanx for any ideas
GM
 
Perth Mint: I need to research their various services myself. The have a 'Super' option I seem to recall. See prior threads.
 
Goldmember said:
Gday guys,ive been reading about SMSF, and was wondering do you think its a good idea for a fund that only has about $50,000 in it....at the moment i have no contributions happening...and probably not much in the future bcoz of my circumstances.

Would the fees/storage/muckin around/ be too much do you think to make it worthwhile?

When it comes time to sell,just thinking how do you go about offloading the bullion?...is it and Ebay job? Any ideas what happens there?
Or does anybody know a good super fund that allows me to part invest in PHYSICAL bullion?

Thinking of getting into Esuper

Thanx for any ideas
GM
Click to expand...

I'm in SMSF, I have less then the amount you have. However, on paper the gains so far in 3 months has already been 6k. I'd think its worthwhile regardless, if this trend continues =D.

Slam
 
I also have less than $50k in my SMSF and also think it is worthwhile.

Having control of "your" money is justification enough to get a SMSF in my mind.
 
Gday,

Investing in physical bullion within a Australian SMSF.

Have recently done it, heres how...

- transferred funds from employers super fund into SMSF set up by my accountant.
- pre booked a security vault to rent, with a non bank affiliated security vault company for storage of physical silver bullion. you cant just bury it in your backyard.
- law requires you to have a safe place to store your super, thus your vault provider must have all the correct paperwork and procedures in place that abide by Tax Provisions when applying for a vault to be used for SMSF purposes.
- paid for and received silver bullion in 15 kg bars, bought from a reputable dealer. took 3 weeks to arrive, deal done via phone and bank transfer.
- SMSF will be audited thru my accountant annually. so must be diligent with paper trail.
- my bullion seller will buy back at 2 per cent below the current spot price if want. there maybe be better deals out there but this is safe and easy for me when/if time comes to sell. all can be done on the phone quickly.
- both my dealer and vault company are affiliated, so the buying, selling, legals and storage are easy.

The bullion seller and vault company have the required ATO SMSF documents needed for signing on the day the bullion arrives and is placed in the vault.
They both need to sight the Super Fund papers prepared by the accountant.

Though investing within SMSF is very tax effective in the long run, I think you do need a fair amount of funds to make doing this style of investing worthwhile. Due to the costs incurred when setting up the fund, the fees to rent the vault annually, and the ongoing accountant auditing tax time costs.

Any sizable accountant group will have a SMSF specialist wholl give you a breakdown of the costs incurred both initially and ongoing. Ask the relevant questions and do the maths with him.

Thats a basic take on it all. Its not overly complex to store physical bullion in your own rented vault, within your SMSF.

Good Luck...
 
beamseeker said:
- the ATO require you to have a safe place to store your super, thus your vault company must be ATO approved.
Click to expand...
(my emphasis)

Got a reference for this? Never heard of an "ATO approved" requirement for a vault company.
 
hmmm
can you buy a safe and store the PM in it?
is there a list vault companies that are ATO approved?

edit: beaten...by like 30 secs
 
What in your opinion ( or in anyone elses ) is the minimum initial amount transferable which will make it
break even !?

So renting the vault, initial set up fees, annual accountant services and all of that - what would
you recommend as the lowest limit?
 
beamseeker said:
- the ATO require you to have a safe place to store your super, thus your vault company must be ATO approved.
Click to expand...
Never heard of this before.
- both my dealer and vault company are affiliated, so the buying, selling, legals and storage are easy.
Click to expand...
There's your problem.
The bullion seller and vault company have the required ATO SMSF documents needed for signing on the day the bullion arrives and is placed in the vault.
They both need to sight the Super Fund papers prepared by the accountant.
Click to expand...
Never heard of this either.
 
unfunkable said:
hmmm
can you buy a safe and store the PM in it?
Click to expand...
Yes. You can probably even dig a hole in the ground and bury it if you so choose, that is unless the rules have recently changed.
 
have a chat with any reputable accountant firms SMSF specialist.
It all really depends on the amount your dealing with, is it better to just keep it in your original super fund? if the costs to do this are too high?
youve got to sit down and do the figures with the accountant.A reputable one will tell you if its worth doing.
Cheers.
 
boston said:
THUCYDIDES79 said:
What in your opinion ( or in anyone elses ) is the minimum initial amount transferable which will make it
break even !?
Click to expand...
Put it this way. I know someone who set up a SMSF with $18,000! They claimed that they were better off financially, as well as having control over their own retirement nest egg.
Click to expand...

I know someone who is currently setting up a new SMSF with only around $15,000!
 
beamseeker said:
have a chat with any reputable accountant firms SMSF specialist.
It all really depends on the amount your dealing with, is it better to just keep it in your original super fund? if the costs to do this are too high?
youve got to sit down and do the figures with the accountant.A reputable one will tell you if its worth doing.
Cheers.
Click to expand...

Please answer the questions above RE ATO approved vault storage, as nobody seems to have heard of this before.

Cheers
 
Re 'ATO approved' wording. On the vault companies website they specify a need for applicants whom are using their services for SMSF purposes to be compliant with Tax Provisions. They have to ensure that the customer and themselves are abiding by SMSF tax law. So lets not say' ATO approved', lets say they are... ATO compliant.
My accountant whom is liable, gave it the green light.
 
That's a very big difference, and frankly I don't think it's any of the vault's business what the storage is being used for. The only inkling they should have of it being used for SMSF asset storage is that they issue an invoice that is in the name of the trust.

Seems extreme that the vault company should be concerned with the liability of the trustees with regards to their SMSF. There's no duty of care on the vault's behalf. Sounds like a marketing ploy.
 
By saying the Dealer and the Vault Company are affiliated, they are not the same company but deal directly and liase with each other. When the bullion seller states they provide storage services, its them using this vault company exclusively. They work together, if I want to top it up or sell any silver, it can be done via phone or online without me physically picking it up. For example, my silver bullion was delivered direct to the vault and not to my dealer first. I didnt have to risk transporting the bullion to my vault 2 blocks around the vault company shop.
Both are great companies to deal with.
 
agree with GP
as long as you have a paper trail showing what you bought with what super money, and money clearly flowing from your bank account to the supplier you are buying from you are fine.
 
goldpelican said:
That's a very big difference, and frankly I don't think it's any of the vault's business what the storage is being used for. The only inkling they should have of it being used for SMSF asset storage is that they issue an invoice that is in the name of the trust.

Seems extreme that the vault company should be concerned with the liability of the trustees with regards to their SMSF. There's no duty of care on the vault's behalf. Sounds like a marketing ploy.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Beamseeker, sometimes with the best of intentions we advise others as to the best way to do things, or our own interpretation of the laws and rules regarding, in this case SMSF. Sometimes it is 100% correct, and sometimes not so.

It must be remembered that quite a few have been looking after their own financial affairs for many years, and if anything out of the ordinary pops up, they want clarification which can lead to robust discussions. Many on here are very savy and know the legal exceptions vs the claimed legal requirements, and there is also a culture of secrecy from government medling. You would do well to heed any advice that they may proffer.

Welcome to the maelstrom. :)
 
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