The True All-In Cost To Mine Gold- Complete 2012 Figures

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What relevance does mining have in the gold price trend?
The mining is the same as a decade ago, yet the price trend was as stable as a rollercoaster. It's obviously existing stocks driving the price trend, not mining.
 
02 Jan 2015

Goldman Sachs has now set its long-term forecast for the price of the yellow metal at $US1,200 an ounce for the next three years.

(1200$ USD) the break-even price for the majority of gold miners once all costs such as exploration, management and mine repairs are included.

Gold may well fall below $US1,200 in the year ahead, but lower prices would force loss-making miners out of business and reduce supply, helping prices to recover eventually.

Mark Bristow, chief executive of FTSE 100 miner Randgold Resources, has said: "The [gold-mining] industry is clearly stuffed at $US1,140 and it will be a bloodbath at $US1,000."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/mini...e-as-the-best-safe-haven-20150102-12gqw1.html

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http://www.smh.com.au/business/mini...e-as-the-best-safe-haven-20150102-12gqw1.html
 
As I said in my previous post here, the amount mined gold was a nearly constant over the decade while the price doubled tripled quadrupled and why would the opposite direction be different?
IF there would be a bloodbad somewhere, it will be in the recycling.
Year / Mining / Recycling (tonnes)
1997 2527 631
1998 2574 1108
1999 2602 620
2000 2618 619
2001 2645 749
2002 2618 872
2003 2621 985
2004 2493 878
2005 2548 897
2006 2486 1126
2007 2476 956
2008 2409 1217
2009 2584 1672
2010 2659 1653
2011 2839 1611.9
2012 2864.1 1590.8
2013 3018.6 1371.4
And as one can see, there is already blood, 4 years 1600+ tonnes and in 2013 back to 1370. All that happened was extra recycling and that extra is now going again just like it came. There was new blood, and it's now dripping away to bring back the "normal". And I'm sure central banks will happily replace what was extra recycled and is now not more.
 
sammysilver said:
Pirocco said:
sammysilver said:
We have analyzed almost all of the major publicly traded gold producers, with a total production of over 25 million ounces (around 800 tonnes) of gold for 2012.

Rule of thumb for silver is a supply of 1,000,000 ounces per year made up of 750,000 mined and 250,000 recycled. This gives a lie to silver coming out of the ground at a 15:1 ratio. It suggests a GSR of 40 or 30 at best if we ignore the recycled ounces.
Gold production in 2012 was 2700 ton see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gold_production and http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews20130516AS_supplies.html

Silver production in 2012 was 1,048.3 Moz see http://www.silverinstitute.org/site/supply-demand/ (that includes recycled silver).

2700 ton gold is 86,8 Moz.
1048.3(silver)/86,8(gold)=a production ratio of 12, in other words, for every ounce gold there is 12 ounce silver.
Above figures for gold do not include the amount recycled gold, since I found too many too different figures.
Since recycled gold would add to the bottom side of the equation, it would decrease the production ratio (more gold for same silver) even more.
So I'm not sure where you see that GSR of 40 or 30. Based on the production figures, it would be 12 or lower.

Thank you, point taken.
To give an update on this, since in meantime I located recycled gold data on a primary source site: 2013's silver/gold production ratio was 7.166. So a 7:1 with "production" defined as mining+scrap/recycling.
 
Holdfast said:
Goldman Sachs has now set its long-term forecast for the price of the yellow metal at $US1,200 an ounce for the next three years.

They couldn't even get their end of year prediction correct, now they are throwing up 3 year forecasts. Hilarious :lol:
 
Accepting that a 7:1 ratio correct, is gold ten time overvalued or silver ten times undervalued? Or are we comparing apples with oranges where the variables make it impossible to compare? That said, as they all have a dollar value as a point of reference, I strongly believe silver to be undervalued, and as such, it is a worthwhile metal to stack, more so than gold.
 
Ahhhhhh ha ha, heehee, eh heh, woo hoooooo .......
what a crack up, that old chestnut again !
Hey Sammy, ..... having a moment of clarity, yeah ?
;)
 
sammysilver said:
Accepting that a 7:1 ratio correct, is gold ten time overvalued or silver ten times undervalued? Or are we comparing apples with oranges where the variables make it impossible to compare? That said, as they all have a dollar value as a point of reference, I strongly believe silver to be undervalued, and as such, it is a worthwhile metal to stack, more so than gold.

7:1 ratio?

Gold is good for bad times, silver is good for good times as it's mainly an industrial metal rathe than a store of value. With Europe and China slowing I am fearful for silver. With bad times ahead I am confident about gold.
 
sammysilver said:
Accepting that a 7:1 ratio correct, is gold ten time overvalued or silver ten times undervalued? Or are we comparing apples with oranges where the variables make it impossible to compare? That said, as they all have a dollar value as a point of reference, I strongly believe silver to be undervalued, and as such, it is a worthwhile metal to stack, more so than gold.
Gonna illustrate the story along a margin value.
Imagine a product X, whose year production and consumption quantities are both 100 units, price 10 each.
Imagine consumption drops to 80 units, BUT Mister Bank buys the surplus of 20 units, so that the price remains 10 each.
He does this for 5 years in a row, and has then built up a stock of 100 units.
Now, imagine that production cost doubles due to whatever (resources depletion / processing costs / machinery damage / whatever) but customers cannot or just don't want to pay more than 15.
The company that produces X thus loses and decides to suspend production until the problems / reasons eventually get solved).
And then Mister Bank re-enters the picture, that has built a stock of 100 units over the 5 years.
Mister Bank can thus supply the customers for an entire year, and decides the price of 15 that customers are still willing to pay.
So, the price of product X has increased to 15 for a year long, until the company eventually coped with the problem and is able again to produce it for 15 or even back to 10.

How does this explain the gold / silver price difference?
Well, the amounts stockpiled is just different than the production cost difference. That's all.
The bigger the stockpile, the longer the company is unneeded to make the product available to the customers.
The smaller it is, the more the customers rely on the company.

The bigger the stockpile of a product, the less the customers are dependent on the company / on the production cost.
In the gold versus silver case, the stockpile ratio differs alot from the price ratio. Golds price is much less dependent on production cost than silvers price.
Being one of the reasons I opted for silver rather than gold, since a higher reliance on a production cost means a closer tracking of general prices, being the hedge against inflation goal.

Of course, there are more elements in the picture. It's also important who is stockpiling and for which reason. Golds market has a much higher degree (figures suggest an overall double) of general-prices-increasings/inflation - causing lazybutts, while silvers market is more small fish that produce. On the other hand, those small fish tend to be less experienced / newbie and less informed / aware, so more prone to error, which in turn draws in lazybutts that wanna take advantage of this. That's why there is a (serious?) degree of prices ratio based swapping by the lazybutts. They milk silvers market to buy more gold, the metal that is also given advantages relative to silver (different tax treatments). Of course, with a worldwide cooperating central planning selling its stockpile low to bullion banks / institutionals and buying it high back from them, the small fish gold guys end up being milked too along less ounces due to higher price then less fiat due to lower price.
 
Ronnie 666 said:
What is funny is that respected traders are now jumping on board with the gold bear market. Rick Ackerman today predicts a future gold price of
wait for it ........

.... $810/ oz :rolleyes: :rolleyes: down $380 - purely technical ??? :rolleyes:

http://www.kereport.com/2015/01/02/friday-morning-rick/

I can't believe it... 1 day later Ackerman now changes his story to predict a gold price as low as $810/oz to $2300/oz.
I must revise my comments I think he will be right :rolleyes:

http://www.kereport.com/wp-content/uploads/0103-1-1.mp3
 
Ronnie 666 said:
Ronnie 666 said:
What is funny is that respected traders are now jumping on board with the gold bear market. Rick Ackerman today predicts a future gold price of
wait for it ........

.... $810/ oz :rolleyes: :rolleyes: down $380 - purely technical ??? :rolleyes:

http://www.kereport.com/2015/01/02/friday-morning-rick/

I can't believe it... 1 day later Ackerman now changes his story to predict a gold price as low as $810/oz to $2300/oz.
I must revise my comments I think he will be right :rolleyes:

http://www.kereport.com/wp-content/uploads/0103-1-1.mp3

What aspects of his analysis do you disagree with?
 
raven said:
Ahhhhhh ha ha, heehee, eh heh, woo hoooooo .......
what a crack up, that old chestnut again !
Hey Sammy, ..... having a moment of clarity, yeah ?
;)
I was commenting on an earlier post of Pirocco where he quoted 7:1. That said, my question is less to do with the GSR but more the nexus between the two. Historically they were joined as currency, compare the silver in one crown to the gold in one sovereign and we get the 16:1 ratio. This joining at the hip was mandated and four crowns always equalled one sovereign. My question is now that yes there is a GSR of 76, because we compare the dollar price of gold to that of silver, other than that any two items can be compared as a ratio, what is the link between the two precious metals, other than historical?

Yes they are both precious metals, both a store of value, both used as jewellery, but they fill different needs and futures. My analysis to date indicates that silver in the next couple of years will quadruple in price whereas gold will possibly double. But the reality is, we are tracking two individual commodities.
 
What you name here as "nexus", is not a reason / a cause, it's the result of an interaction of an amount elements that are reasons / causes, those are what is named "agent", being an human on a market that decides and acts (the peeing dogs don't count).
Simple put: describe and compare what happens in the gold and silver markets and you find why people swap between them, which is what you name "nexus".
Like you say here, until some past the why of people didnt matter, since the price ratio was just forced upon them.
Silvers market is a newbie small fish one.
Golds market is a pro big fish one.
Pro milks newbie.
G temporary visits S to get more G.
The duration being the one of the swapping-related part of the price cycle.
What you name as 'two individual commodities', is only a part of the reality. Another part is what happens inbetween them.
The dollar and gold are also individual products. But as soon as people swap dollars for gold, a second story starts, added to both dollar and gold markets then existing stories. External price effects.
 
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