The Libs just borrowed another 1.2 BILLION dollars

mmm....shiney! said:
col0016 said:
It's bad enough that the government funds public schools. There is absolutley no reason they should fund "private" schools as well.
The analogy with cars and public transport is a good one.

So transport policies justify educational policies now?

There's only one issue at stake - who gets to benefit when money has been forcibly taken from an individual and redistributed?
If we're going to take people's money then we may as well use it to educate the poor, not the rich/those who can afford to send their kids to private schools.

It's insane that the funding for private schools is increasing at a higher rate than public schools per student.
 
col0016 said:
If we're going to take people's money then we may as well use it to educate the poor, not the rich/those who can afford to send their kids to private schools.

We could always punish those wealthy families that could afford to send their children to private schools but choose to use the valuable educational resources of public schooling while we're at it too?
 
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
 
Results not typical said:
It's to make the interest payments on the Gillard/Rudd/Swan deficit.
Taking on more debt to pay interest on existing debt. The adults are in charge are they? We are looking at budget mismanagement on an eopic scale that dwarves Labor's attempts.
 
SilverPete said:
Results not typical said:
It's to make the interest payments on the Gillard/Rudd/Swan deficit.
Taking on more debt to pay interest on existing debt. The adults are in charge are they? We are looking at budget mismanagement on an eopic scale that dwarves Labor's attempts.

I agree that it is indeed epic mismanagement but it was Labor that turned a 20 billion dollar surplus into a 270 billion dollar deficit during a mining boom and that was economic vandalism of the highest order. To then deliberately sign the country up to unfounded expenditure (NDIS) purely as a spiteful booby trap for the next government was criminal.

Having said that we now have a situation where the Liberals, who throughout the last century always came in and repaired the books after each Labor government left office have abrigated their post and are doing nothing to fix this. The Abbott government was too gutless to begging cutting spending and the Turnbul government is acting like a Labor government and going off on a mad spending spree.

Turnbull is going to be just as much of a pariah soon as Julia Gillard is now. She actually had a lot more guts than Malcolm.
 
I actually think that if Shorten and Turnbull reman leaders of their respective parties that whichever side wins government at this election it will be the last term for that party. They are both so incompetent that by the end of another three year term the incumbent party will lose so many seats that they will become a minor party.

We need a great leader at this point in history and it wouldn't matter which party they represented. The options that we have now are worthless.
 
Results not typical said:
We need a great leader at this point in history and it wouldn't matter which party they represented. The options that we have now are worthless.

Don't hold your breath RNT, every western government is floundering and that won't change regardless of who is in power. And even if by some miracle a leader arises that has the potential to change the sitution, it's just not going to happen.

It's because governments have extended their authority beyond protecting the liberty of the individual, to pursuing policies that enhance collectivism, from upholding the virtues of self-reliance and independence, to sacrificing the individual in the name of the best interests the group.

It's a depressing outlook I know but the only solution is for the State to remove itself as much as possible from the lives of its people, maybe a Gorbachev or a de Klerk will arise, but you'd probably agree such a leader would be opposed to at least 95% of the population's views.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
...

It's because governments have extended their authority beyond protecting the liberty of the individual, to pursuing policies that enhance collectivism, from upholding the virtues of self-reliance and independence, to sacrificing the individual in the name of the best interests the group.
Because that wins more votes than the alternatives. Who do you blame? The politicans or those who vote for their platforms, policies and promises? Maybe you can say it is simple selection at work: the current batch of politicians are simply more fit for the preferences of the elecotrate than those politicians with alternative policies.
 
We are so screwed. All three of the major parties have completely abandoned any sense of purpose and responsibility and sense of duty and ethics that their forebears enshrined.
 
SilverPete said:
mmm....shiney! said:
...

It's because governments have extended their authority beyond protecting the liberty of the individual, to pursuing policies that enhance collectivism, from upholding the virtues of self-reliance and independence, to sacrificing the individual in the name of the best interests the group.
Because that wins more votes than the alternatives. Who do you blame? The politicans or those who vote for their platforms, policies and promises?

Who do i blame? These people, in order of guilt:

1. The politicians. Because the lie is originated and promulgated by them.
2. Special interest/lobby groups such as Unions, industry bodies, churches, government bureaucrats and departments because the lie is maintained to benefit these groups.
3. The mainstream media for spreading and cultivating the lie.
4. Your average Dick and Jane for believing the lies and giving their consent to politicians.

By the time we get down to the bottom of the list I would've run out of bullets and walls. :P
 
mmm....shiney! said:
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
Public schools aren't free, there are fees of $1000 or so per year.
 
col0016 said:
mmm....shiney! said:
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
Public schools aren't free, there are fees of $1000 or so per year.

There are no compulsory fees that I'm aware of in public schools (well at least in Qld), any fees charged are advisory only and are not enforceable. What fees are you referring to?
 
mmm....shiney! said:
col0016 said:
mmm....shiney! said:
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
Public schools aren't free, there are fees of $1000 or so per year.

There are no compulsory fees that I'm aware of in public schools (well at least in Qld), any fees charged are advisory only and are not enforceable. What fees are you referring to?
Those ones, most students pay them. Just like most people pay for public transport haha.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
Oh but we do. I know for a fact children are allowed to ride on buses for free in Queensland after the Daniel Morecombe case.
 
doomsday surprise said:
mmm....shiney! said:
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
Oh but we do. I know for a fact children are allowed to ride on buses for free in Queensland after the Daniel Morecombe case.

That's not true.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
doomsday surprise said:
mmm....shiney! said:
And taking the public transport analogy further, we don't let users ride for free, so therefore users of public education should have to pay as well. They are freeloading on the taxpayer.
Oh but we do. I know for a fact children are allowed to ride on buses for free in Queensland after the Daniel Morecombe case.

That's not true.
There was a "no child left behind" policy introduced where children who couldnt pay had to still be allowed to travel on a bus. In one case of employee dismal for violating the policy, the TWU argued it removed driver discretion on who to refuse.mI have nomidea what the current status of the policy is.

No Child Left Behind' policy upheld

The Fair Work Commission handed down on 19 December 2014 a landmark decision upholding the right of an employer to enforce its "No child is Left Behind" policy, relating to the carriage of school children on their buses.

In the decision, Steven Curtis v. Transit Australia Pty Ltd, [2014] FWC 867, 22 December 2014, Deputy President Hamilton was required to review the summary dismissal of an employee who had breached the Company's "No Child Left Behind" policy, in which the employee had been trained.

The Transport Workers Union, representing the employee, submitted that any policy which purports to remove a driver's discretion in relation to refusal of travel to persons who do not pay a fare (including children who are not school children) cannot be lawful or reasonable.

The Australian Public Transport Industrial Association, represented its member and submitted that the policy "No Child Left Behind", enunciated by both Queensland Transport and adopted by Transit Australia, included all school students at infant and primary levels as well as students at secondary level, up to 17/18 years. APTIA contended that the Policy applied to all children of school age who travelled on public transport at all times of the day, on all days of the week and was an important policy for the protection of children.

Deputy President Hamilton stated:

"In my view ('No Child Left Behind") is both lawful and reasonable having regard to the principles in Woolworth Limited v Cameron Brown, 26/ 09/ 2005, PR963023. There is nothing in Government Guiding Principles, Code of Conduct or Regulations which prevents this employer in implementing its stated "No Child Left Behind" policy."

The Decision, in which the dismissal was upheld, provides comfort to APTIA members that it is lawful and reasonable for Bus Operators to adopt safety policies, advocated by Government, to protect young persons provided that their employees are fully aware of those policies.
 
Thanks didn't know that, I was only aware of concessions available for children in school uniform and of course the bus passes that are given to kids allowing them to catch a bus to their nearest local school as long as they live further than the specified distance away.

So kids can get a free ride at taxpayer's expense? How does a kid turn up without bus money, unless of course they are doing so without the knowledge of the parent or the parent just doesn't give a damn.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Thanks didn't know that, I was only aware of concessions available for children in school uniform and of course the bus passes that are given to kids allowing them to catch a bus to their nearest local school as long as they live further than the specified distance away.

So kids can get a free ride at taxpayer's expense? How does a kid turn up without bus money, unless of course they are doing so without the knowledge of the parent or the parent just doesn't give a damn.

You can't judge the general population by your standards. Remember, 50% of the population is below average.
 
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