THE HEAD CHEF, THE WAITER AND THE POOP SANDWICH.

silversearcher

silversearcher

Active Member
Silver Stacker
9345_poop.jpg


Before I start, I wish to make it clear that there are kids out there who collect coins and view this forum. So for the benefit of the post, I have deliberately refrained from using expletives.

In life there are 3 types of people. Those who get sucker punched, those who roll with the punches, and those who prefer to go for the knockout punch. I prefer to go for knockout punch and do it with style like Muhammad Ali. From a silver stacking point of view, my gloves are off and there is no holding back, because enough is enough.

If you walked into a restaurant and ordered Lobster Thermidor and were served a poop sandwich, what would you do? Do you eat it? Do you tell the waiter to send it back to the head chef and reorder? Or do you simply walk out of restaurant. I think the majority of people would simply walk out. So using this analogy where the "HEAD CHEF" is the Mint, and "THE WAITER" is the dealer and the "POOP SANDWICH" is the milk spotted silver coin. Why do stackers keep buying poop sandwiches? Knowing full well that countless Mints out there keep manufacturing them! And in the middle of the mix is the waiter who keeps serving them!

Of course the waiter is caught between a rock and a hard place. He has to cop it the neck from the customer. And he can't tell the head chef to shove it, else he loses his job. At some point a line has to be drawn in the sand. The list of Mints in recent years pumping out milk spotted silver coins is ridiculous. Here's the list Perth Mint, Provident Metals, Bavarian Mint, Canadian Mint and the list goes on. Just when you think the milk issue is resolved, another round of new releases have the same issue.

I for one, have put all series of milk spotted coins on hold. I'll be damned if I'll be eating any more poop sandwiches. I'm moving on too other forms of bullion. As for the waiter who continues to serve them, expect to receive less tips in the coming years as you have less orders to serve. Of course, the last man standing will be the head chef. And yet, he's arrogant enough to keep making poop sandwiches, as there are still some out there that consider bad taste is better than no taste. Ultimately, The head chef and the waiter will be out on the curb, unless both go back to serving Lobster Thermidor....

This goes back to my opening statement about those who get sucker punched, or just roll with the punchesWhen do you draw your line in the sand?


Cheers
 
silversearcher said:
http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/9345_poop.jpg

Before I start, I wish to make it clear that there are kids out there who collect coins and view this forum. So for the benefit of the post, I have deliberately refrained from using expletives.

In life there are 3 types of people. Those who get sucker punched, those who roll with the punches, and those who prefer to go for the knockout punch. I prefer to go for knockout punch and do it with style like Muhammad Ali. From a silver stacking point of view, my gloves are off and there is no holding back, because enough is enough.

If you walked into a restaurant and ordered Lobster Thermidor and were served a poop sandwich, what would you do? Do you eat it? Do you tell the waiter to send it back to the head chef and reorder? Or do you simply walk out of restaurant. I think the majority of people would simply walk out. So using this analogy where the "HEAD CHEF" is the Mint, and "THE WAITER" is the dealer and the "POOP SANDWICH" is the milk spotted silver coin. Why do stackers keep buying poop sandwiches? Knowing full well that countless Mints out there keep manufacturing them! And in the middle of the mix is the waiter who keeps serving them!

Of course the waiter is caught between a rock and a hard place. He has to cop it the neck from the customer. And he can't tell the head chef to shove it, else he loses his job. At some point a line has to be drawn in the sand. The list of Mints in recent years pumping out milk spotted silver coins is ridiculous. Here's the list Perth Mint, Provident Metals, Bavarian Mint, Canadian Mint and the list goes on. Just when you think the milk issue is resolved, another round of new releases have the same issue.

I for one, have put all series of milk spotted coins on hold. I'll be damned if I'll be eating any more poop sandwiches. I'm moving on too other forms of bullion. As for the waiter who continues to serve them, expect to receive less tips in the coming years as you have less orders to serve. Of course, the last man standing will be the head chef. And yet, he's arrogant enough to keep making poop sandwiches, as there are still some out there that consider bad taste is better than no taste. Ultimately, The head chef and the waiter will be out on the curb, unless both go back to serving Lobster Thermidor....

This goes back to my opening statement about those who get sucker punched, or just roll with the punchesWhen do you draw your line in the sand?


Cheers
Click to expand...

Are you going back to the Restaurant???
 
It all boils down to how long the patrons will continue to accept the risk of having their beloved lobster turn into a poop sandwich. I would imagine everyone's 'line in the sand' would be different. Having said that, as far as I'm concerned, when I assess the risk of ordering lobster, housing that lobster in a safe place till it matures, only to discover that a percentage those lobsters have morphed into poop sandwiches. That's a risk that I'm not willing to take, nor can afford. So my particular line in the sand was crossed some time ago.
It only takes a few lobsters morphing into poop sandwiches to destroy the possible gains you could make on the remaining lobsters.

just my 2
 
Golden ChipMunk said:
silversearcher said:
http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/9345_poop.jpg

Before I start, I wish to make it clear that there are kids out there who collect coins and view this forum. So for the benefit of the post, I have deliberately refrained from using expletives.

In life there are 3 types of people. Those who get sucker punched, those who roll with the punches, and those who prefer to go for the knockout punch. I prefer to go for knockout punch and do it with style like Muhammad Ali. From a silver stacking point of view, my gloves are off and there is no holding back, because enough is enough.

If you walked into a restaurant and ordered Lobster Thermidor and were served a poop sandwich, what would you do? Do you eat it? Do you tell the waiter to send it back to the head chef and reorder? Or do you simply walk out of restaurant. I think the majority of people would simply walk out. So using this analogy where the "HEAD CHEF" is the Mint, and "THE WAITER" is the dealer and the "POOP SANDWICH" is the milk spotted silver coin. Why do stackers keep buying poop sandwiches? Knowing full well that countless Mints out there keep manufacturing them! And in the middle of the mix is the waiter who keeps serving them!

Of course the waiter is caught between a rock and a hard place. He has to cop it the neck from the customer. And he can't tell the head chef to shove it, else he loses his job. At some point a line has to be drawn in the sand. The list of Mints in recent years pumping out milk spotted silver coins is ridiculous. Here's the list Perth Mint, Provident Metals, Bavarian Mint, Canadian Mint and the list goes on. Just when you think the milk issue is resolved, another round of new releases have the same issue.

I for one, have put all series of milk spotted coins on hold. I'll be damned if I'll be eating any more poop sandwiches. I'm moving on too other forms of bullion. As for the waiter who continues to serve them, expect to receive less tips in the coming years as you have less orders to serve. Of course, the last man standing will be the head chef. And yet, he's arrogant enough to keep making poop sandwiches, as there are still some out there that consider bad taste is better than no taste. Ultimately, The head chef and the waiter will be out on the curb, unless both go back to serving Lobster Thermidor....

This goes back to my opening statement about those who get sucker punched, or just roll with the punchesWhen do you draw your line in the sand?


Cheers
Click to expand...

Are you going back to the Restaurant???
Click to expand...

Not till the Chef improves his cooking skills.. Cheers
 
Greg Williams said:
It all boils down to how long the patrons will continue to accept the risk of having their beloved lobster turn into a poop sandwich. I would imagine everyone's 'line in the sand' would be different. Having said that, as far as I'm concerned, when I assess the risk of ordering lobster, housing that lobster in a safe place till it matures, only to discover that a percentage those lobsters have morphed into poop sandwiches. That's a risk that I'm not willing to take, nor can afford. So my particular line in the sand was crossed some time ago.
It only takes a few lobsters morphing into poop sandwiches to destroy the possible gains you could make on the remaining lobsters.

just my 2
Click to expand...

You have to be very wary of seafood that's going off....

Cheers
 
There will be new people who discover the restaurant and accept the taste of poop sandwich and never realized they are lobster.
 
Interesting analogy but point well made.

I think the collector and the stacker communities are becoming less tolerant by the day of the milk spot problem these mints are avoidably and needlessly creating just to save a few pennies (if in fact it is due to lubricant or detergent not washed off the blanks properly / thoroughly).

I am staying away from modern silver collector coins from these mints until they can prove that they have addressed this problem they have created.



.
 
I don't think the Mints whose coins milkspot really care (at least not the US Mint, for which I will use as an example). The law here states they have to make enough bullion coins to satisfy demand, or something to that extent. Although ASEs don't milkspot as bad as some, they still do sometimes. If people though start buying less ASEs, the Mint will make less. End of story. The US Mint is supposedly set up (with respect to silver and gold bullion) to be "not for profit" per se. So they could give a rat's a$$ I believe.

Maybe other Mints are for profit and do care, but not the US Mint.

I picked up a roll of milk spotted 2012 Maples late last week for $2 over per coin (before the drought they were $1.25 over for spotted ones). Considering generic bullion is now roughly $2.50 over spot locally (when it is even available at the stores), I am ok with the spotted Maples cheap.

If/when silver gets to $50 and beyond, most of that pretty, high premium stuff will lose their premiums (unless really rare, old coins, etc). I am basing this prediction on what has happened since 1980 when prices spiked. I have seen it a time or two over the past 10 years, and heard if from long time coin dealers so I think it will happen again. For example, in 1980 when silver was approaching $50, many many many old Morgans were melted that were MS+ condition and even rarer years, because the silver price far exceeded the numismatic value (at the time). That's how I bought a lot of cool stuff after the 2011 crash for near spot (BU Franklin rolls, old US proof sets (pre 1960), XF Walker rolls, etc) that now sell for much more than spot (since now the price is down and premiums rise- just like always).

I wouldn't pay higher premiums (relative to generic) to buy any silver coins that are known to milk spot like Canadian bullion (I love the designs though), Philharmonics, more recently even the Perth Mint (spiders), Libertads (1996 to present), etc.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
I picked up a roll of milk spotted 2012 Maples late last week for $2 over per coin (before the drought they were $1.25 over for spotted ones). Considering generic bullion is now roughly $2.50 over spot locally (when it is even available at the stores), I am ok with the spotted Maples cheap.
Click to expand...

Good point, I have cashed in Silver maples before, they would have paid the same for milk spotted ones as they hardly even looked at them, just counted out and checked the weight on a few / magnet etc. Mine were perfect untouched still sealed in tube. I cringed a bit when he handled them lol, i think he noticed.... :/ but ya as long as they are not fakes it wont matter much what they look like if you need to unload some quickly etc.
 
Jim4silver said:
I don't think the Mints whose coins milkspot really care (at least not the US Mint, for which I will use as an example). The law here states they have to make enough bullion coins to satisfy demand, or something to that extent. Although ASEs don't milkspot as bad as some, they still do sometimes. If people though start buying less ASEs, the Mint will make less. End of story. The US Mint is supposedly set up (with respect to silver and gold bullion) to be "not for profit" per se. So they could give a rat's a$$ I believe.

Maybe other Mints are for profit and do care, but not the US Mint.

I picked up a roll of milk spotted 2012 Maples late last week for $2 over per coin (before the drought they were $1.25 over for spotted ones). Considering generic bullion is now roughly $2.50 over spot locally (when it is even available at the stores), I am ok with the spotted Maples cheap.

If/when silver gets to $50 and beyond, most of that pretty, high premium stuff will lose their premiums (unless really rare, old coins, etc). I am basing this prediction on what has happened since 1980 when prices spiked. I have seen it a time or two over the past 10 years, and heard if from long time coin dealers so I think it will happen again. For example, in 1980 when silver was approaching $50, many many many old Morgans were melted that were MS+ condition and even rarer years, because the silver price far exceeded the numismatic value (at the time). That's how I bought a lot of cool stuff after the 2011 crash for near spot (BU Franklin rolls, old US proof sets (pre 1960), XF Walker rolls, etc) that now sell for much more than spot (since now the price is down and premiums rise- just like always).

I wouldn't pay higher premiums (relative to generic) to buy any silver coins that are known to milk spot like Canadian bullion (I love the designs though), Philharmonics, more recently even the Perth Mint (spiders), Libertads (1996 to present), etc.

Just my opinion.

Jim
Click to expand...


No one in their right mind is concerned about milk spots on bullion coins like BU ASE's.

What there is great concern about is silver collector coins. There are plenty of U.S. Mint silver coins that are not bullion coins minted to satisfy demand and are instead considered collector or numismatic coins. It is in fact collector coins developing milk spots as a result of the minting process that is troubling buyers and is likely beginning to cause an increasing number of these buyers to eschew these higher premium coins (some refer them to numismatic or semi-numismatic). It is those coins that the mints will have to do something about or face diminishing ROI in producing these coins because many might not be purchased.


Case in point: the 2015 5 oz. silver Britannia proof coin. I believe collectors had such a sour experience with the previous years coins developing milk spots that many are staying away now.

I know plenty of forum members here have already expressed that the will be cutting back or stopping altogether the purchase of a number of collector coins that are known to have a high likelihood of milk spotting.



.
 
Ya I would be very afraid to buy "proofs" now from any mint, well except the RCM , never had a milk spot yet on their proof coins , just on the bullion, maybe I am just lucky lol, but I stopped buying from the RCM for other reasons, lower resale value ( below issue price) of a lot of their coins as time passes for one, mintages too high etc etc.

I have no problem buying "antiqued" coins however. Dont recall seeing milk spots of any of those"yet" .
 
thing is there are some stackers who buy by the box or roll and may not realise they have an issue until they go to sell. Well too late then to ask for a refund one would think?
 
mmissinglink said:
Jim4silver said:
I don't think the Mints whose coins milkspot really care (at least not the US Mint, for which I will use as an example). The law here states they have to make enough bullion coins to satisfy demand, or something to that extent. Although ASEs don't milkspot as bad as some, they still do sometimes. If people though start buying less ASEs, the Mint will make less. End of story. The US Mint is supposedly set up (with respect to silver and gold bullion) to be "not for profit" per se. So they could give a rat's a$$ I believe.

Maybe other Mints are for profit and do care, but not the US Mint.

I picked up a roll of milk spotted 2012 Maples late last week for $2 over per coin (before the drought they were $1.25 over for spotted ones). Considering generic bullion is now roughly $2.50 over spot locally (when it is even available at the stores), I am ok with the spotted Maples cheap.

If/when silver gets to $50 and beyond, most of that pretty, high premium stuff will lose their premiums (unless really rare, old coins, etc). I am basing this prediction on what has happened since 1980 when prices spiked. I have seen it a time or two over the past 10 years, and heard if from long time coin dealers so I think it will happen again. For example, in 1980 when silver was approaching $50, many many many old Morgans were melted that were MS+ condition and even rarer years, because the silver price far exceeded the numismatic value (at the time). That's how I bought a lot of cool stuff after the 2011 crash for near spot (BU Franklin rolls, old US proof sets (pre 1960), XF Walker rolls, etc) that now sell for much more than spot (since now the price is down and premiums rise- just like always).

I wouldn't pay higher premiums (relative to generic) to buy any silver coins that are known to milk spot like Canadian bullion (I love the designs though), Philharmonics, more recently even the Perth Mint (spiders), Libertads (1996 to present), etc.

Just my opinion.

Jim
Click to expand...


No one in their right mind is concerned about milk spots on bullion coins like BU ASE's.

What there is great concern about is silver collector coins. There are plenty of U.S. Mint silver coins that are not bullion coins minted to satisfy demand and are instead considered collector or numismatic coins. It is in fact collector coins developing milk spots as a result of the minting process that is troubling buyers and is likely beginning to cause an increasing number of these buyers to eschew these higher premium coins (some refer them to numismatic or semi-numismatic). It is those coins that the mints will have to do something about or face diminishing ROI in producing these coins because many might not be purchased.


Case in point: the 2015 5 oz. silver Britannia proof coin. I believe collectors had such a sour experience with the previous years coins developing milk spots that many are staying away now.

I know plenty of forum members here have already expressed that the will be cutting back or stopping altogether the purchase of a number of collector coins that are known to have a high likelihood of milk spotting.



.
Click to expand...


That is your opinion, but it is quite narrow and wholly inaccurate. Ask someone who paid full premiums on a tube of Maples, Spiders, Phils, etc, and later discovers they are milk spotted, how they feel about it. You think those people will then run and buy MORE of them later when they can choose something else?

Your arrogant, holier-than-thou attitude with respect to this issue is a bit surprising.

Just my opinion.

Jim
 
I think they should just run all the bullion coins through a sander and scratch them all to heck before selling them , then we wouldn't be having this conversation, a bullion coin would be just that a bullion coin , no expectations..... :P
 
mmissinglink said:
No one in their right mind is concerned about milk spots on bullion coins like BU ASE's.

What there is great concern about is silver collector coins. There are plenty of U.S. Mint silver coins that are not bullion coins minted to satisfy demand and are instead considered collector or numismatic coins. It is in fact collector coins developing milk spots as a result of the minting process that is troubling buyers and is likely beginning to cause an increasing number of these buyers to eschew these higher premium coins (some refer them to numismatic or semi-numismatic). It is those coins that the mints will have to do something about or face diminishing ROI in producing these coins because many might not be purchased.


Case in point: the 2015 5 oz. silver Britannia proof coin. I believe collectors had such a sour experience with the previous years coins developing milk spots that many are staying away now.

I know plenty of forum members here have already expressed that the will be cutting back or stopping altogether the purchase of a number of collector coins that are known to have a high likelihood of milk spotting.
.
Click to expand...
Very true and I see a lot of discontent on coin collector forums as well over milk spotting on high premium proof coins.

I am certainly staying away now from proof coins due to this.
 
Northerncoins said:
I think they should just run all the bullion coins through a sander and scratch them all to heck before selling them , then we wouldn't be having this conversation, a bullion coin would be just that a bullion coin , no expectations..... :P
Click to expand...
It's called "antiquing" :P
 
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