lshallperish said:
you dont have a clue what you are talking about as what you are talking about the the premium not the base metal price (spot) that the big boys are talking about. Now go have you milk and run along the grownups are talking
The Good News Silver has just 20% more declines in AUD terms
- Thread starter jjrici
- Start date
you dont have a clue what you are talking about as what you are talking about the the premium not the base metal price (spot) that the big boys are talking about. Now go have you milk and run along the grownups are talking
Ronnie 666 said:
it wont be a mass exidous of miners like some here think and at current prices it is still above costs for the majority of silver only mines. As for secondary mining which MOST silver is produced from can go to low single digits ( which wont happen for any sustained period of time ) before it is unprofitable.
Court Jester said:
I don't know where you get your figures from (probably Goldman Sachs) but all in costs of US and South American miners is around ($24-22). I have no idea what Australian costs are but South African costs will be higher (labor issues and non-mechanized methods). I spend a day last week listening to a Webinar where experts including Mining representatives explained their cost structures. First Majestic are one of the more profitable Mexican miners and they are threatening to withhold supply as the price approaches their production costs. What about the other less profitable Mexican miners - Mexico is the world's largest silver producer. Got any proof Mexican Libertads this year ?? I have news for you it is already unprofitable to mine silver - it is only a matter of time before it shuts down!
How much is spent on new exploration - Barrack cut their CAPEX budget 60% this year - next year it will be 0. To think that this is not going to smash supply is crazy. But then JP Morgan can run off a certificate and stamps it 5000oz and you don't need to do all the hard yakka. Simple
A few references for silver cost production and this was earlier this year at $23-22/oz not 15 haha
http://silverseek.com/commentary/20...primary-miners-real-cost-produce-silver-13222
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kitcone...ine-silver-in-this-current-price-environment/
http://silverseek.com/commentary/20...primary-miners-real-cost-produce-silver-13222
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kitcone...ine-silver-in-this-current-price-environment/
Ronnie 666 said:
do you even read yuour own links
one of the largest silver produces in the word has a cash cost of <$10 an oz
many other mines that mine silver as a by product are this or less.
you linked to a BS silver site trying to crap on about why you cant use the cash cost as a basis.
It is slanted BS and of course you can as that is what the mines report and use.
again > $10 an oz we ahve a long way to go before any MAJOR producer shuts down
Court Jester said:
No its you who don't read ? beyond the first line
cut and paste !!Top 12 Primary Silver Miners Suffered A Loss Of $1.00 An Ounce In 2013
According to Kitco.com, the average price of silver in 2013 was $23.79. Using simple arithmetic, the top primary miners should have made a cash profit of $14.32 an ounce ($23.79 - $9.47 = $14.32). However, this was not the case. My top 12 primary silver miners as a group suffered an adjusted income loss of nearly $1.00 an ounce in 2013.
Ronnie 666 said:Court Jester said:
No its you who don't read ? beyond the first line
Top 12 Primary Silver Miners Suffered A Loss Of $1.00 An Ounce In 2013
According to Kitco.com, the average price of silver in 2013 was $23.79. Using simple arithmetic, the top primary miners should have made a cash profit of $14.32 an ounce ($23.79 - $9.47 = $14.32). However, this was not the case. My top 12 primary silver miners as a group suffered an adjusted income loss of nearly $1.00 an ounce in 2013.
again from a site promoting silver arguing why you cant use the silver cash price to push their own adjective.
Like I said in the forbes article you like paints a different story
I would take an article like Forbes article quoting first majestic one of the big boy silver miners (operating several large mines) over your crackpot silver site article pushing its own adjenda.
more tasty quotes
basically your wrong and have not shown any proof that any significant mine has so far shut its doors, in fact we are a long way off it. Show me some ACTUAL data where it shows they are below cost -- I will take stock market updates / release / articles from credible news organisations.
And if Neumeyer says they are pulling it out at $9+ / oz why is he withholding sales now at $15 makes sense?
and if that's too complex to understand try this simple discussion with Jim Dines earlier this year
http://www.kitco.com/ind/GoldReport...cret-to-Being-Grateful-Even-at-17-Silver.html
"Even primary silver producers are reluctant to turn off the lights temporarily when they are working at a loss. I figure the average all-in sustaining cost per ounce, including taxes, is $23/oz. That makes selling for $17/oz unsustainable." So at $15 they must be making heaps ?????
and if that's too complex to understand try this simple discussion with Jim Dines earlier this year
http://www.kitco.com/ind/GoldReport...cret-to-Being-Grateful-Even-at-17-Silver.html
"Even primary silver producers are reluctant to turn off the lights temporarily when they are working at a loss. I figure the average all-in sustaining cost per ounce, including taxes, is $23/oz. That makes selling for $17/oz unsustainable." So at $15 they must be making heaps ?????
Ronnie 666 said:
didnt say they were making "heaps" but they are making money @ $15 and are still a long way off closing the doors when their cash cost per oz is $9/oz This is also one producer you also still ahve several other large ones that produce silver as a byproduct with even lower costs this this.
again you dont read your own articles.
so 70% of silver is produced by companies that dont give a hoot about the price of silver as long at they are making money off their base metal still.
so that least a paltry 30% of the market of primary producers that may close -- depending on what their actual costs may or may not be. Mines in third world countries are still profitable currently. but it gets better from your own article:
^^ good to cherry pick but that was before base metals and gold fell off a cliff. If you produce 90% base metals and 10% Ag - yes Ag will not impact your production when base metals decline 20% it's going to impact.
Ronnie 666 said:
Im not "cherry picking" I am pointing out your own stupidity by linking an article that contradicts the point you are trying to make.
Base metals may have slid but most mines are still profitable here as well.(e.g. BHP / RIO have for example increased production and increased effencies in iron ore production to offset the sliding iron ore price)
again 70% of silver productions comes from miners that dont give a hoot about the silver price. Linked to from your own article.
Listen to you - who's stupid ? Rio and BHP have increased production with falling prices to crash the opposition - How many times you been round the block.
Before you start calling people stupid look in the mirror....
Before you start calling people stupid look in the mirror....
I can't find the link - and am strictly quoting from memory - but in last week's KP Numismatics newsletter, Pat Heller wrote about attending a 'conference' put on by the silver industry. One of the industry speakers is quoted as reporting that something like 90% of miners were producing for less than US$13 an ounce. Someone else who also read the article might like to share the link.
Ronnie 666 said:
irellevant why they have done it the fact is they have
they are almost as profitable still as they were before the slide, and still are producing silver as a by product
so once again your an idiot and again 70 % of silver production is produced as a byproduct where the miners couldnt give a hoot to the silver price and your original point like all miners are about to shut up shop and go bankrupt because of the price is 100% balony fairy tale bullshit
your smokin the crack pipe with sammy silver
^^^ in your less than humble opinion Others disagree - podcast released today - discussion on all in costs begins at about 20 minutes in :
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/d/b/3/db3120...1ce3dae902ea1d06c98237d9c15d0abb&c_id=7823733
In your opinion this is also BS
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/d/b/3/db3120...1ce3dae902ea1d06c98237d9c15d0abb&c_id=7823733
In your opinion this is also BS
Ronnie 666 said:^^^ in your less than humble opinion Others disagree - podcast released today - discussion on all in costs begins at about 20 minutes in :
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/d/b/3/db3120...1ce3dae902ea1d06c98237d9c15d0abb&c_id=7823733
In your opinion this is also BS
dont listen to pod casts but probably yes.
just to be clear, silver byproduct producers as CJ said don't care very much about the silver they produce. However the silver doesn't just fall out of the lead, it costs money and seperate complicated equipment and chemical processes, if the price isn't good enough they will just discard it. We aren't there yet for a lot of them though.
I'm guessing there are PLENTY of producers still making money and some who aren't and some more who fall into that second category every time the price drops another 50 cents.
problem is there is already production shortfall. Every producer that drops out is that many millions less ounces on the market.
what I think will be more interesting but harder to figure is to find out is how the low prices affect jewelry and industries reclemation and recycling.
I'm guessing there are PLENTY of producers still making money and some who aren't and some more who fall into that second category every time the price drops another 50 cents.
problem is there is already production shortfall. Every producer that drops out is that many millions less ounces on the market.
what I think will be more interesting but harder to figure is to find out is how the low prices affect jewelry and industries reclemation and recycling.
phrenzy said:
they are a long way from discarding it, and as others in here pointed out whilst linking artcles that went against their own point, 70% of silver production falls into this category of being produced as a byproduct.