Whistleblowers used to (still?) face a lot of opposition as someone who upset the applecart.
The Commercial Bank Of Australia Nostalgia
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Emanance
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Old Codger said:
I imagine back then people had a lot of faith in their central banks & governments to not print excessive amounts of fiat currency to collapse the economy. It was not the men who built Rome who watched her burn.
Really enjoying this thread fellas
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Lovey80,
When I joined the Bank in Jan '55, the Teller/2nd Officer had been in the town for quite a few years. His wife was a local girl and they were raising their family there.
When I was transferred to the big city after successfully serving my 6 months 'probation', I heard on the staff grape-vine that he had reported the Branch Manager to Head Office for some defalcation.
The up shot was the Managers dismissal, and the transfer of the reporter to I think it was Manangatang branch. The transfer soon caused the breakup of his marriage, as the wife would not live there.
That is the only actual case of this Regulation in my experience.
As to the bank's reasons, I am not certain, but feel that it may have generated negative 'feedback' in the town, and possible loss of business etc.
I confess, in one city Branch, about 1960 or so, I knew the Manager was ignoring a 'Kite Flying' operation involving cheques of 100,000 Pounds or more. He was allowing the entries to pass without action. I watched every one of those cheques, and the presentation of his cheques against the uncleared funds. If I had not, I would have been blamed for sure. The customer eventually went to gaol.
I said nothing!
PS,
The initial 6 month Probation and payment of 80 pounds as a 'Security Deposit' was mandatory for new entrants. If you failed it you were out, and if not your employment was confirmed and the 80 Pounds went on to you normal 3% Supannuation contributions. My Grandfather paid it for me.
When I joined the Bank in Jan '55, the Teller/2nd Officer had been in the town for quite a few years. His wife was a local girl and they were raising their family there.
When I was transferred to the big city after successfully serving my 6 months 'probation', I heard on the staff grape-vine that he had reported the Branch Manager to Head Office for some defalcation.
The up shot was the Managers dismissal, and the transfer of the reporter to I think it was Manangatang branch. The transfer soon caused the breakup of his marriage, as the wife would not live there.
That is the only actual case of this Regulation in my experience.
As to the bank's reasons, I am not certain, but feel that it may have generated negative 'feedback' in the town, and possible loss of business etc.
I confess, in one city Branch, about 1960 or so, I knew the Manager was ignoring a 'Kite Flying' operation involving cheques of 100,000 Pounds or more. He was allowing the entries to pass without action. I watched every one of those cheques, and the presentation of his cheques against the uncleared funds. If I had not, I would have been blamed for sure. The customer eventually went to gaol.
I said nothing!
PS,
The initial 6 month Probation and payment of 80 pounds as a 'Security Deposit' was mandatory for new entrants. If you failed it you were out, and if not your employment was confirmed and the 80 Pounds went on to you normal 3% Supannuation contributions. My Grandfather paid it for me.
willrocks,
I think I was a very ordinary bloke back then, far too concerned about earning enough money to pay the bills. The silver content of a coin meant nothing, and only a bloke with a BIG crystal ball would know its significance.
I do know that many people got examples of uncirculated LSD notes and coins for the grandkids and also new issue Dollar notes etc, but how many survived the storage, i do not know. Obviously some did.
I think I was a very ordinary bloke back then, far too concerned about earning enough money to pay the bills. The silver content of a coin meant nothing, and only a bloke with a BIG crystal ball would know its significance.
I do know that many people got examples of uncirculated LSD notes and coins for the grandkids and also new issue Dollar notes etc, but how many survived the storage, i do not know. Obviously some did.
Lovey80,
On my first day, I was handed a 'Reg Book' and was bluntly told to read it and do what it said. It was a small book with about 50+ pages or so, and i still have it!
It is in my metal family history box.
On reading the Reg on defalcation I was a bit shocked and asked about it, and was told to be VERY careful of what was ever claimed, and why. The unspoken message was that I could come off second best.
On my first day, I was handed a 'Reg Book' and was bluntly told to read it and do what it said. It was a small book with about 50+ pages or so, and i still have it!
It is in my metal family history box.
On reading the Reg on defalcation I was a bit shocked and asked about it, and was told to be VERY careful of what was ever claimed, and why. The unspoken message was that I could come off second best.
Another memory!
No idea if this still applies, probably not, but back in the olden days banks had 'Code' system of communication between Branches and Head office etc.
The Code Book was a big thing with a few 100 pages. So a high security communication would be something like this:-
ABNCY WERNY ERYHU MNCTD and so on. It may be 30 or 40 of these combinations.
This message would be constructed by each of them being extracted from the Code Book, and the destination Branch would decode it by going to the Code Book and finding each combination alphabetically. both in Code and open English.
Thus the above message may mean
ABNCY = Please pay to the credit of.....
WERNY = The sum of.........
ERYHU = Draw on this Office.........
MNCTD = All funds clear and undoubted.....
So, no Code Book, = no message and no decode possible.
No idea if this still applies, probably not, but back in the olden days banks had 'Code' system of communication between Branches and Head office etc.
The Code Book was a big thing with a few 100 pages. So a high security communication would be something like this:-
ABNCY WERNY ERYHU MNCTD and so on. It may be 30 or 40 of these combinations.
This message would be constructed by each of them being extracted from the Code Book, and the destination Branch would decode it by going to the Code Book and finding each combination alphabetically. both in Code and open English.
Thus the above message may mean
ABNCY = Please pay to the credit of.....
WERNY = The sum of.........
ERYHU = Draw on this Office.........
MNCTD = All funds clear and undoubted.....
So, no Code Book, = no message and no decode possible.
Old Codger said:
You had to pay for the previledge of working there!!? (I had to read that several times to make sure that's what you were saying.)
yes, that was the way it was.
I cannot remember if a failed recruit forfeited his 'Deposit', but I have the feeling he did. No idea when that was discontinued.
In fact my entry was entirely unexpected. I was home from school for a few days after that years exams, and the CBA Branch Manager stopped me in the street and asked if I was interested in joining the CBA. I was not at that time, , but agreed to his request to consider it.
I had a think, agreed, and that started a 36 years and one day career.
I cannot remember if a failed recruit forfeited his 'Deposit', but I have the feeling he did. No idea when that was discontinued.
In fact my entry was entirely unexpected. I was home from school for a few days after that years exams, and the CBA Branch Manager stopped me in the street and asked if I was interested in joining the CBA. I was not at that time, , but agreed to his request to consider it.
I had a think, agreed, and that started a 36 years and one day career.
Another memory.
In 1893, the CBA went bankrupt and closed its doors. It was a classic 'victim' of the Land Boom of that time in Melbourne. For detail, read 'THe Land Boomers' (Bill Cannon, I think) and account of the crooked deals in the expansion of Melbourne down the coast of the Port Phillip Bay to about Bentleigh and Brighton etc. Bentleigh was named after the biggest land crook of all, Sir Thomas Bent.
Most of these developers borrowed the money, developed the land, hid the profits and went bankrupt, paying about a penny in the pound if the bank was lucky. Some went broke many times.
Over the next year the bank was 'Reconstructed', with all depositors being given 'Preference Shares' to the face value of the account balance. Those shares were still earning fixed interest (2% I think) in 1982 at the Merger (rape).
At one time I was a friend of the Bank's Archivist, and she showed me the Minutes of the Extraordinary General meeting of the Board which agreed to the closure.
A copy of the Circular to all Managers, instructing them to close their doors IMMEDIATELY, was attached.
Found this.
http://dailyreckoning.com/the-land-boomers/
In 1893, the CBA went bankrupt and closed its doors. It was a classic 'victim' of the Land Boom of that time in Melbourne. For detail, read 'THe Land Boomers' (Bill Cannon, I think) and account of the crooked deals in the expansion of Melbourne down the coast of the Port Phillip Bay to about Bentleigh and Brighton etc. Bentleigh was named after the biggest land crook of all, Sir Thomas Bent.
Most of these developers borrowed the money, developed the land, hid the profits and went bankrupt, paying about a penny in the pound if the bank was lucky. Some went broke many times.
Over the next year the bank was 'Reconstructed', with all depositors being given 'Preference Shares' to the face value of the account balance. Those shares were still earning fixed interest (2% I think) in 1982 at the Merger (rape).
At one time I was a friend of the Bank's Archivist, and she showed me the Minutes of the Extraordinary General meeting of the Board which agreed to the closure.
A copy of the Circular to all Managers, instructing them to close their doors IMMEDIATELY, was attached.
Found this.
http://dailyreckoning.com/the-land-boomers/
hotel 46,
Bank Managers often made a fatal error in their careers. Many lived above the branch, or in a bank owned house nearby. Their salary was augmented by a 'House Allowance', to make up for the loss of capital appreciation in house property over the years.
The unwise ones spent that, and on retirement suddenly realised they had to buy a home. It took a LOT out of the retirement cheque!
Bank Managers often made a fatal error in their careers. Many lived above the branch, or in a bank owned house nearby. Their salary was augmented by a 'House Allowance', to make up for the loss of capital appreciation in house property over the years.
The unwise ones spent that, and on retirement suddenly realised they had to buy a home. It took a LOT out of the retirement cheque!
hotel 46 said:
The Economic rationalism of the 80's saw the end of that. People whom had dedicated their whole lives turfed out with no respect. It was a lesson learned by their kids and passed onto the "Y" Generation. Loyalty isn't rewarded.
hotel 46 said:by the old codgers posting you can see the decline of moral application. years ago your bank manager stayed at a branch for years. nowadays they change sometimes even less than yearly
i can remember if you got a job as a bank teller after school you were very highy though of. getting into the bank as a teller was even more prestigeous than going to uni!
Certainly a decline of moral application at the level of the average person on the street. That can certainly be seen in the strictness in the way bank managers handled their branches with such integrity throughout OC's generation. However, the proof is in the banking pudding going back to 1880-1890's Australia and almost identical examples in the US throughout similar time frames and going back even further in England.
All examples of fractional reserve banking gone wrong. We humans have obviously short memories, I am sure the most prestigious of banking elite in Melbourne during the land boom were aware of the bank runs and how they came about in England and the US. Yet as always, "this time is different" and the rolling profits always seem to overshadow the long term memories of what can and what undoubtedly will always happen.
How we to this day, even through all of what history has taught us, can have a system where simple people with simple lives can be put in a situation where they could go into a bank and not be able to withdraw their funds is unbelievably criminal. You can guarantee that the bank runs of the 1890's saw many many more people(%) be able to withdraw their funds before institutions folded than would be able to today if it were to occur. Or in a similar action but just as corrosive, would be a similar bank holiday that gave the RBA time to print the required funds to allow all depositors to be given their "money". Only by that time, the money printing will be so inflationary that it will be lucky to buy 10% of what it did before the runs started.
Just criminal!
BTW fantasic thread lads.
Clawhammer,
"People whom had dedicated their whole lives turfed out with no respect. Loyalty isn't rewarded."
Loyalty and dedication was demanded by the Bank and willingly given, but when the BNSW took over the CBA, loyalty went overboard. Branches (usually CBA) were closed wholesale and lives were disrupted with unwanted transfers. Many CBA got promotions. even I got one, but in the end the "ex Wales" staff got the goodies, and the "ex CBA' got the left overs, if any.
Careers hit a brick wall, and people like me started counting the months to age 55.
Then as I hit 50 I began getting the hints about early retirement and soon the offers came, quietly at first, and I must say VERY generous. After a bit of negotiation we came to an agreement and off we went, into a long dreamed of caravan and on the road for about 9 years non stop. We saw and did the lot near enough.
We had paid off the house by my 46th birthday, so the cheque stayed intact and has grown amazingly y over the past 20 years, due to "the miracle of compound interest" otherwise knows as DRP - Dividend Reinnvestment Plan.
I have never looked back with so much as a tear in my eye.
"People whom had dedicated their whole lives turfed out with no respect. Loyalty isn't rewarded."
Loyalty and dedication was demanded by the Bank and willingly given, but when the BNSW took over the CBA, loyalty went overboard. Branches (usually CBA) were closed wholesale and lives were disrupted with unwanted transfers. Many CBA got promotions. even I got one, but in the end the "ex Wales" staff got the goodies, and the "ex CBA' got the left overs, if any.
Careers hit a brick wall, and people like me started counting the months to age 55.
Then as I hit 50 I began getting the hints about early retirement and soon the offers came, quietly at first, and I must say VERY generous. After a bit of negotiation we came to an agreement and off we went, into a long dreamed of caravan and on the road for about 9 years non stop. We saw and did the lot near enough.
We had paid off the house by my 46th birthday, so the cheque stayed intact and has grown amazingly y over the past 20 years, due to "the miracle of compound interest" otherwise knows as DRP - Dividend Reinnvestment Plan.
I have never looked back with so much as a tear in my eye.
Lovey80,
"All examples of fractional reserve banking gone wrong. We humans have obviously short memories, I am sure the most prestigious of banking elite in Melbourne during the land boom were aware of the bank runs and how they came about in England and the US."
I must confess I had never heard the term 'Fractional Reserve Banking' until a couple of years ago. I suppose it existed but never used. Banks in OZ, then and now, borrowed a million dollars from many customers and lent out $900,000. The other $100,000 went into reserve that was never expected to back up ALL loans or deposits. Remembering that ALL banks "borrow short and lend long", there is no such situation where everything is covered by a reserve , it is impossible.
And in 'The Land Boomers' you can read of many of the leading families today that got their start in that crooked era, including a "high ranking political figure" in Victoria today.
....and if the Banks go broke today, I expect that the Government guarantee will turn out to be a Treasury Bond for the account balance, NOT currency!
If a 'run' starts the banks will get a holiday immediately.
JMO
"All examples of fractional reserve banking gone wrong. We humans have obviously short memories, I am sure the most prestigious of banking elite in Melbourne during the land boom were aware of the bank runs and how they came about in England and the US."
I must confess I had never heard the term 'Fractional Reserve Banking' until a couple of years ago. I suppose it existed but never used. Banks in OZ, then and now, borrowed a million dollars from many customers and lent out $900,000. The other $100,000 went into reserve that was never expected to back up ALL loans or deposits. Remembering that ALL banks "borrow short and lend long", there is no such situation where everything is covered by a reserve , it is impossible.
And in 'The Land Boomers' you can read of many of the leading families today that got their start in that crooked era, including a "high ranking political figure" in Victoria today.
....and if the Banks go broke today, I expect that the Government guarantee will turn out to be a Treasury Bond for the account balance, NOT currency!
If a 'run' starts the banks will get a holiday immediately.
JMO
B
Byron
Guest
Old Codger said:
By DRP do you mean you did well out of holding shares in the bank and reinvesting the dividend for more shares?
Yes
Errol,
"Now lets talk about radio serials..Tarzan, Superman,Dick Barton special agent, Biggles and Greenbottle."
'Yes, What?' was my favourite radio show, I lost count of the times I wet my pants laughing at that bunch. Also comics! My favorite was the 'Uncle Remus' series of books and comics. I think I learned to read from them and somehow managed to filter out the southern slang and vernacular to translate it into proper English.
Brer Rabbit and Brer Fox, I have fond memories of you.
"Zippedy doo dah, zippedy ay!
My oh My what a wonderful day"
(thank you Mr You Tube) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adl0hVnXqRQ
"Now lets talk about radio serials..Tarzan, Superman,Dick Barton special agent, Biggles and Greenbottle."
'Yes, What?' was my favourite radio show, I lost count of the times I wet my pants laughing at that bunch. Also comics! My favorite was the 'Uncle Remus' series of books and comics. I think I learned to read from them and somehow managed to filter out the southern slang and vernacular to translate it into proper English.
Brer Rabbit and Brer Fox, I have fond memories of you.
"Zippedy doo dah, zippedy ay!
My oh My what a wonderful day"
(thank you Mr You Tube) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adl0hVnXqRQ
Old Codger said:
But there could be. I have broached the idea in another thread. I called it a Glass-Stegal "type" (please dont get hung up on the name) act where every day retail banking was purely service based and those funds could not be loaned out or touched by the bank. Then a second purely separate arm of banking where depositors could lend money to the bank to be loaned out at their own risk. Terms could be met where depositors were locked in on "shorter" term contracts and lent out "long" giving the banks some sort of surety over their loanable funds. At least at a manageable time frame. Such a scenario would see a bank run on retail deposits as a non event, where a bank run on the lending and investment arm was near on not possible as those funds were under contract for the period specified. As those funds were not rolled over at the end of contracts (a slow walk on the bank instead of a run) banks would have the ability to adjust appropriately by raising interest rates to retain deposits and to retard lending. This would allow a purely free market on interest rates and make the RBA redundant as far as monetary policy is concerned and put them into a regulatory role of auditing and coining of currency.
Of course such an idea would be almost impossible to implement today as things currently stand. It would show how completely insolvent our banking system is and collapse it over night. It would have to wait until a natural collapse of the current system was allowed to occur and implemented as a new foundation to build on.
Old Codger said:
No doubt you are absolutely right on everything in this paragraph. To highlight that it still occurs today where builders seem to spring up from no where. Then get big over night, make bundles of cash that get squirreled away only to see them go bankrupt. A year after the dust settles they are still living in million dollar homes and have started up again under different names and different directors but the same people at the helm albeit not on paper. We can only imagine how much easier it was to do under much looser regulatory systems in the 1880's era. That sort of massive wealth transfer sets the foundations for growing an empire.
Thinking about your thoughts on a Treasury Bond in leiu of a currency print is interesting. I can only imagine that this would be a disaster for a governments ability to fund a defecit as all those every day mum and dad depositors would Immeadiately seek to sell those bonds for everyday living, crashing the bond market just like the bank run would have done for the banks. Again socialised losses for privatised profits.
Again it highlights my assertion that the banks are in fact insolvent. Having so much cash at on demand yet loaned out long. Can anyone think of another industry that could survive like this? Take any simple say manufacturing business. Can you imagine how fast they would be out into administration once a single creditor learned how long term the manufacturers profits would take to pay out all of its monthly credit bills at once? Simply relying on monthly turn over to meet short term obligations? They would be charged with trading insolvent as fast as you can say ACCC.
Glad to see you back on these pages Old Codger. Your posts always stimulate my thinking. Although our views may take different paths I value your contribution to these pages a lot.