The Biggest Loser

bordsilver

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
Syntheses and reflect various comments I've made in the past but in different words.

Peter Schiff said:
In Switzerland, it's not just the clocks that are cuckoo. Over the past four years Swiss politicians and central bankers have gone on an unprecedented buying spree of foreign exchange reserves. In 2012, their cache swelled to as much as $420 billion worth of various currencies, primarily the euro. This figure is a seven-fold increase since 2008 and equates to 70% of the country's annual GDP. The sum translates to $200,000 per family of four, enough to keep the Swiss in clocks, chocolates, and fondue for many years to come. The Swiss leadership will claim the money has been "invested" with an eye to the future, but what they've done is impoverished themselves in the present. Although such a decision seems perverse, it makes perfect sense when seen through the lens of today's presiding economic thinking.

For the past few generations Switzerland has enjoyed some of the strongest economic fundamentals in the world. The country boasts a high savings rate, low taxes, strong exports, low debt-to-GDP, balanced government budgets, and prior to a few years ago one of the most responsible monetary policies in the world. These attributes made the Swiss franc one of the world's "safe haven" currencies. But in today's global economy, no good deed goes unpunished.

Central bankers around the world, particularly in Washington, Frankfurt and Tokyo, have been engaged in a massive and coordinated campaign of currency debasement to combat the recession. But for years the Swiss refused to join in the printing parade. As a result, investors around the world wisely decided to park their savings in the reliable Swiss franc. From December of 2008 to August 2011 the franc appreciated an astounding 59% against the U.S. dollar and approximately 30% against the Japanese yen. More importantly, the franc gained 42% against the euro. As the Eurozone completely surrounds Switzerland, its trade with those countries represents the vast majority of its international transactions.

During this massive run up in its currency, the Swiss economy continued to prosper. Wages and purchasing power increased and GDP grew consistently faster than other countries in Western Europe. Despite generally positive export statistics, some Swiss exporters noticed that at times the strong franc put them at a disadvantage against foreign competitors. In addition, the strengthening currency helped keep a lid on consumer prices, giving Switzerland a consistently low inflation rate with occasional bouts of actual deflation. Despite the fact that Switzerland was an island of economic health amidst a sea of problems, the reigning economic orthodoxy convinced Swiss leaders that their strong currency was a burden rather than a blessing. More pointedly, the rise in the franc was seen as a repudiation of the expansionary policies occurring in other countries. And so the Swiss government decided to join the currency killing party.

In early August 2011, the Swiss National Bank took a series of steps to reverse the fortunes of the franc. In the simplest terms, they sold francs and bought foreign currencies, most notably the euro. The announcement included a promise to buy unlimited quantities of foreign exchange to maintain a floor of 1.20 francs per euro. In so doing, the Swiss essentially outsourced their monetary policy to the Eurozone. Any moves taken by the European Central Bank would need to be matched by the Swiss. Ironically, it was fear of this outcome that kept the Swiss from adopting the euro in the first place. Despite the former bias toward independence, the Swiss have de facto adopted the euro anyway. Since that time, the franc has fallen 16% against the dollar, Swiss foreign exchange reserves have skyrocketed, and investors who bought francs as a means to escape debasement have been betrayed.

Productive nations generate excess goods and services that can be sold abroad and their growth and stability attract investment funds from abroad. These conditions will tend to increase demand for the nation's currency, thereby pushing up its price. A strong currency keeps capital and raw materials costs low, enabling more productive workers to earn higher real wages. But according to most economists, a strong currency will bring down an economy because it destroys international competitiveness and can even lead to lower prices (deflation) which they see as economic quicksand. These fears have ignited a "global currency war" in which countries are expending huge amounts of national savings in order to ensure that their currencies stay cheap. In today's economic logic we must fail in order to succeed.

But it is very easy to have a weak currency. All that is needed is an unlimited willingness to print. A strong currency requires real fiscal discipline and actual production. Yet, like the weight loss TV show, economists believe that the winner of a currency war is the biggest loser. You win not by killing your competitors, but by killing yourself! It's like a student convincing his parents that an "F" is a better grade than an "A." And if a straight "F" report card results in parental accolades rather than anger, the students will lack any incentive to improve performance. Similarly, as nations like Switzerland strive to reduce their own grades, the failing nations have a reduced incentive to change their study habits. Without outside support, nations with collapsing currencies would see huge increases in consumer prices. The resulting fall in living stands would force productive reform.

I take the minority position that just as it is better to be rich than poor, a strong currency is better than a weak one. Although much more credentialed economists may try to muddle the arguments, the truth may be seen when a particular position is taken to its logical extreme. If a weaker currency is preferable to a stronger one, then logic would dictate that a currency of no value will be preferable to one with an infinite value. But how would economies with these drastically different currencies operate?

It is true that the country with the zero value currency will tend to see full employment and strong exports. The relative low cost of labor will mean that the locals could be easily employed in even the most marginal activity. But since holders of other currencies will be able to outbid the domestic population for all of their production, everything produced will be exported. Imports will be zero as the local population would be unable to afford anything produced in countries with more valuable currencies. As a result, actual consumption would be extremely low. In essence this economy would be analogous to impoverished, subsistence level economies such as Bolivia, Zimbabwe, and Haiti.

In contrast, a country with an infinitely valuable currency would see the best of all possible worlds. Even the smallest amount of money would allow citizens to buy huge amounts of goods from abroad. An evening's babysitting money would deliver more purchasing power than months of hard labor in poorer countries. The strong currency would mean that consumption would soar even while hours worked fell. Savings would increase in value, and people would have more ability to travel and pursue leisure activities. In essence, we are describing a rich economy.

Placed in such a context, it's easy to see the preferred option. Those who believe in the benefits of weak currencies do not specify when a falling currency becomes a bad thing. Clearly there must be a tipping point where lost purchasing power overcomes supposed gains in growth. Yet they are silent on that point. My position is that a rising currency is always good. No magic tipping point needs to be identified.

The problem is that economists now believe that the goal of an economy is to provide employment, not goods and services. They see a job as an end in and of itself, rather than as a means for people to get the things they really want. But if we can get all that we want without having to work, who needs to bother? A strong currency takes us closer to this goal. It is a testament to how far the "science" of economics has fallen that this goal has been utterly forgotten.

But this junk science is killing real growth. As long as this "black is white" ideology remains in place, the biggest printers will continue to be the biggest actual losers.
http://news.goldseek.com/EuroCapital/1359748193.php
 
There is a lot to take out of that article bs, thanks.

It is true that the country with the zero value currency will tend to see full employment and strong exports. The relative low cost of labor will mean that the locals could be easily employed in even the most marginal activity. But since holders of other currencies will be able to outbid the domestic population for all of their production, everything produced will be exported. Imports will be zero as the local population would be unable to afford anything produced in countries with more valuable currencies. As a result, actual consumption would be extremely low. In essence this economy would be analogous to impoverished, subsistence level economies such as Bolivia, Zimbabwe, and Haiti.

It wouldn't be too difficult for a national government to legislate that a % of all foodstuffs and other locally produced goods be sold on a domestic market. Mandated markets - say 20% of all seafood to be sold in Australia, the rest will be able to be exported. Yearly quotas that would need to be met, if demand didn't meet supply, the domestic quota would be cut, with the excess exported the following year or dumped etc.

A socially engineered market with the availability of goods determined by a bureaucracy not a consumer. Such legislation could be sold very easily to the electorate if it was "in the best interests of Australians". :/
 
It wouldn't be too difficult for a national government to legislate that a % of all foodstuffs and other locally produced goods be sold on a domestic market. Mandated markets - say 20%... [snip]

A socially engineered market with the availability of goods determined by a bureaucracy not a consumer. Such legislation could be sold very easily to the electorate if it was "in the best interests of Australians". :/

Noooooo! Central command and control by bureaucracy? Let me renew my passport first. We called it the USSR... and even western bureaucracies suck the life out of any business they touch. :o
 
The country boasts a high savings rate, low taxes, strong exports, low debt-to-GDP, balanced government budgets, and prior to a few years ago one of the most responsible monetary policies in the world. These attributes made the Swiss franc one of the world's "safe haven" currencies. But in today's global economy, no good deed goes unpunished.

In today's global economy, a country need only display one or two of these attributes, or cynically, attributes that when compared to other countries are less negative, for that country's currency to approach "safe currency status".

The AUD, CAD and NZD have held their own well because they stink less, even the Mongolian Tughrit has appreciated massively, and that's only because it was once an isolated country and now it aint and it's got shedloads of stuff the others want at the moment, and unlike the Swedes, it aint flatpack furniture. Time to buy MMK? :cool:

There are no safe currencies now, there are only currency plays. And the irony of it all is that the safest currency in the long term may well be the USD. Who knows? My only advice........

753_girls.jpg
 
I'm reading a few 'Euro has survived USD is cooked' articles.

Draghi's 'whatever it takes' seems to have convinced everyone Euro good. Dollar bad.

I think we're one Wall Streeter with a fat finger and a line too many of cocaine away from SHTF and no-where to run because:

http://etfdailynews.com/2013/01/30/...illion-dollars-of-gold-and-silver-in-january/

Our first point of interest is a recent report from the Federal Reserve that indicates some $114 billion dollars in cash was withdrawn from the nation's largest banks in the last thirty days. Those holding their money at bailed out financial institutions are understandably concerned because the government's $250,000 deposit insurance guarantee program, originally implemented to restore confidence in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, expired at the end of 2012. That and the US fiscal situation has never been worse, with one Obama official recently having said the solution to the country's woes is to simply kill the dollar.

This suggests investors and cash savers are no longer confident in the purported safety of the country's "too-big-to-fail" institutions.

The next obvious question then is, "where did this money go?"

Part of the mystery may have been unraveled when the US Mint released its latest sales and inventory report.

According to the mint, investors purchased nearly half a billion dollars in gold and silver in the last 30 days. There was, in fact, so much money shifting into physical precious metals in January that the mint was actually forced to cease operations because they couldn't meet demand.
 
JulieW said:
I'm reading a few 'Euro has survived USD is cooked' articles.

Draghi's 'whatever it takes' seems to have convinced everyone Euro good. Dollar bad.

I think we're one Wall Streeter with a fat finger and a line too many of cocaine away from SHTF and no-where to run because:

http://etfdailynews.com/2013/01/30/...illion-dollars-of-gold-and-silver-in-january/

Our first point of interest is a recent report from the Federal Reserve that indicates some $114 billion dollars in cash was withdrawn from the nation's largest banks in the last thirty days. Those holding their money at bailed out financial institutions are understandably concerned because the government's $250,000 deposit insurance guarantee program, originally implemented to restore confidence in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, expired at the end of 2012. That and the US fiscal situation has never been worse, with one Obama official recently having said the solution to the country's woes is to simply kill the dollar.

This suggests investors and cash savers are no longer confident in the purported safety of the country's "too-big-to-fail" institutions.

The next obvious question then is, "where did this money go?"

Part of the mystery may have been unraveled when the US Mint released its latest sales and inventory report.

According to the mint, investors purchased nearly half a billion dollars in gold and silver in the last 30 days. There was, in fact, so much money shifting into physical precious metals in January that the mint was actually forced to cease operations because they couldn't meet demand.
Wow that is impressive
 
From an old thread. Repost here so that I can find it again.
bordsilver said:
It is always worth remembering that manufacturing is the means to an ends not the ends in themselves. Personally I would absolutely love it if we could set up a magical system whereby we exported a handful of things produced by robots for a gazillion dollars each which would drive our exchange rate up to $100,000:1 and all we did was pop down to the docks for a few hours a week, find all these great goods (ipods, TV's, cars, food, booze, etc) that essentially appear on our shores as if by magic from our overseas manufacturers, shove them into a truck and deliver them to the people on my street. I would much rather working just a few hours a week to get all the great stuff I want to consume than work 40 hours a week manufacturing stuff to buy it back.
 
^ In fact, the above is the whole point of Gold and Silver. Rather than working for money which eventually degrades into peanuts you want to hold the value of money so you either don't have to work as much as you otherwise would, or you end up with much more for the same amount of work you otherwise would have.

Instead most people get much of the value of their money stolen over time and end up having to work more which requires more and more employment which requires an ever booming economy. Which you supposedly get to buy destroying the value of money more. And so the cycle goes. You have to wonder when the madness is going to end.
 
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.
 
Lovey80 said:
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.

+1000
 
Jonesy said:
Lovey80 said:
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.

+1000
Ditto. It's never been cheaper to buy good quality capital equipment from overseas to help this happen. The trick is to not piss it up against the wall on excessive, unnecessary housing stock (or similar) like the Americans did.
 
Lovey80 said:
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.

Excellently put, I agree with everything you said, I'm just not sure Australian's have it in them to innovate. At least not the current crop which has been through this process and become lazy and lackadaisical as a result.
 
hawkeye said:
Lovey80 said:
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.

Excellently put, I agree with everything you said, I'm just not sure Australian's have it in them to innovate. At least not the current crop which has been through this process and become lazy and lackadaisical as a result.

They have no choice. Those that have the ability will prosper as those that are too lazy cop a hiding and once on the poverty line, they will find ways of making a dollar once necessity forces it out of them. The path of least resistance is unfortunately to lobby the government to play the currency manipulation game like the rest of them and that is the worst thing we could do.

As stated, use this time to import more productive items. Take mining for example, the recent profits (and exchange rate) have allowed mining companies to invest in huge excavators in the vicinity of 850t. They are huge productivity advancements that will yield great results once the debt is purged and natural growth can continue. Sure they can lay off all the expensive labour they want right now to save dollars while coal prices etc are low but once things pick back up again, only the best will be rehired to drive them.
 
Lovey80 said:
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.

Unfortunately, there is no incentive for business people to invest in manufacturing. Mining magnates are amongst the most prominent of our business community for a very good reason, minerals is about the only thing Australia can do competitively. A skim through the top ten of Australia's richest makes the obvious point, if you're not into mining, then it's tough. Only one of the top 10 richest Australians earns his money from manufacturing - and that was a business he inherited. The high AUD is just the nail in the coffin.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Lovey80 said:
The problem is, people by nature will always look to take the easiest path. For the past 30years the low AUD has allowed our realistically uncompetitive goods to remain attractive. This causes our inflation to go up unnecessarily and with it the cost of living. This causes the Labour unions to cry foul and hold employers and whole industries to ransom for higher wages without any substantial productivity gains. Continuing the cycle of downward uncompetitiveness as all industries are not FORCED to innovate and do things smarter and more efficient. Now the dollar has changed and the inefficiency of Australia is merely being shown for what it is and not actually caused by the high AUD.

Right now is a time for Australians to take this as a challenge to innovate and become more efficient in everything we do and also to trim down on consumption. Take the high AUD as a blessing. Sooner rather than later the race to the bottom of the other countries will catch up to us so that their costs of living reach the retarded levels of Australia. When that time comes, if we do everything, smarter, better quality and cheaper than the biggest competitors we will be the biggest winner.

Unfortunately, there is no incentive for business people to invest in manufacturing. Mining magnates are amongst the most prominent of our business community for a very good reason, minerals is about the only thing Australia can do competitively. A skim through the top ten of Australia's richest makes the obvious point, if you're not into mining, then it's tough. Only one of the top 10 richest Australians earns his money from manufacturing - and that was a business he inherited. The high AUD is just the nail in the coffin.

Not now, the manufacturing sector has been hamstrung by inflation and the trade unions to the point that there is now no use. The time to invest in manufacturing should have been progressively over the last 30 years, while we had the low AUD keeping us artificially competitive. I guess the only one to be able to make a profit in manufacturing in the near future will be an outsider that has an innovative plan to produce goods with very little labour.
 
Manufacturing will be automated for the most part anyway. It isn't going to be a driver of jobs. Machines will be cheaper than even Chinese workers.

That's why I think more than anything we need a re-think about what exactly we are trying to achieve in our market economy. Do we want everyone working all the time for ever decreasing value of money earnt or do we want the necessities and luxuries of life to be as cheap as possible for the maximum number of people? And if that means people don't need to work as much, then why is that a bad thing? I think the current property prices are the fundamental problem in this equation. So much of the average worker's money going on debt repayment. Not to mention the tax regime.
 
hawkeye said:
Manufacturing will be automated for the most part anyway. It isn't going to be a driver of jobs. Machines will be cheaper than even Chinese workers.

That's why I think more than anything we need a re-think about what exactly we are trying to achieve in our market economy. Do we want everyone working all the time for ever decreasing value of money earnt or do we want the necessities and luxuries of life to be as cheap as possible for the maximum number of people? And if that means people don't need to work as much, then why is that a bad thing? I think the current property prices are the fundamental problem in this equation. So much of the average worker's money going on debt repayment. Not to mention the tax regime.
Thats a very good point about machines . The capital to buy those machines would be the problem for most .

A person with some foresight could see that the AUD & interest rates are a blessing & the rest of the world is on sale for the entrepenuers to invest in that machinery .
 
hawkeye said:
That's why I think more than anything we need a re-think about what exactly we are trying to achieve in our market economy. Do we want everyone working all the time for ever decreasing value of money earnt or do we want the necessities and luxuries of life to be as cheap as possible for the maximum number of people? And if that means people don't need to work as much, then why is that a bad thing?

You sound like my teachers in the 70's.

"You should learn a musical instrument because when you are older you will have so much spare time for leisure because technology will make everything so much easier, you'll need to have a skill to fill in your leisure time."

People not wanting to work as much is a bad thing, it's a sickness, it's the mantra of the entitlement cadre, it's bullshit. If you want something, you should strive for it. It only comes easy if someone else is being screwed.

Karl Marx and I see eye-to-eye on one thing - our work defines us.
 
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