mmissinglink
Active Member
^ Even if that wasn't the initial intention, perhaps to get legislation through, it would have to be written in a way that leaves the back door open to the legal taxation of barter.
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Texas proposal the right to use PMs as money in state constition
- Thread starter Skyrocket
- Start date
mmissinglink
Active Member
Ron Paul comes across as incoherent. He doesn't finish some sentences...a pathetic Trump trait. Paul's also very wrong in presuming that gold and silver are money. Paul forgets that we are not living in the 4th century. The US $ is not fraudulent money. It may not be the kind of money some people want, but that doesn't mean that it's fraudulent. Money is what it is regardless of what Paul wants it to be.
Additionally, Paul handled Senator Farley's second question poorly.
As much as I'd like to see the bill pass, if the proposed bill is relying on feeble voices like Paul's to get it passed, I'm guessing it won't pass.
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Additionally, Paul handled Senator Farley's second question poorly.
As much as I'd like to see the bill pass, if the proposed bill is relying on feeble voices like Paul's to get it passed, I'm guessing it won't pass.
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mmissinglink said:Ron Paul comes across as incoherent. He doesn't finish some sentences...a pathetic Trump trait. Paul's also very wrong in presuming that gold and silver are money. Paul forgets that we are not living in the 4th century. The US $ is not fraudulent money. It may not be the kind of money some people want, but that doesn't mean that it's fraudulent. Money is what it is regardless of what Paul wants it to be.
Additionally, Paul handled Senator Farley's second question poorly.
As much as I'd like to see the bill pass, if the proposed bill is relying on feeble voices like Paul's to get it passed, I'm guessing it won't pass.
You are wrong on all counts. Ron Paul does not come across as incoherent and he was also right in presuming that gold and silver are money.
You are wrong because the bill just got PASSED!
Arizona Senate Committee Passes Bill To Treat Gold As Money, Remove Capital Gains Tax
Today, an Arizona Senate Committee passed a bill that would eliminate state capital gains taxes on gold and silver specie, and encourage its use as currency. Final approval of the legislation would help undermine the Federal Reserve's monopoly on money.
Former US Rep. Ron Paul testified today in the Senate Finance Committee in support of House Bill 2014 (HB2014). The legislation, which previously passed the state House by a 35-24 vote, would eliminate state capital gains taxes on income "derived from the exchange of one kind of legal tender for another kind of legal tender." The bill defines legal tender as "a medium of exchange, including specie, that is authorized by the United States Constitution or Congress for the payment of debts, public charges, taxes and dues." "Specie" means coins having precious metal content.
In effect, passage of the bill would, as Paul noted, "legalize competition in a Constitutional fashion."
Under current Arizona law, gold and silver are subject to capital gains tax when exchanged for Federal Reserve notes, or when used in barter transactions. If the purchasing power of the Federal Reserve note has decreased due to inflation, the metals' nominal dollar value generally rises and that triggers a "gain." In most cases, of course, the capital gain is purely fictional. But these "gains" are still taxed thus unfairly punishing people using precious metals as money.
"We ought not to tax money, and that's a good idea. It makes no sense to tax money," said Paul. "Paper is not money, it's a substitute for money and it's fraud," Paul continued, noting the importance of honesty money vs federal reserve notes.
Today, the Senate Finance Committee passed the bill by a 4-3 vote along party lines.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ill-treat-gold-money-remove-capital-gains-tax
Now that it happened could it be a precedent for others to follow, especially when currencies start collapsing?
Of course it can happen, when US currency falls, history tells us, all currency fall, just like Romans, Spanish, Dutch, and Pound, of which were all Gold backed.
As for other currencies falling affecting in US context simply no, why would it matter to Americans if the euro, aud, Venezuelans, Zimbabwe or the Brits pound collapse?
As for other currencies falling affecting in US context simply no, why would it matter to Americans if the euro, aud, Venezuelans, Zimbabwe or the Brits pound collapse?
Why do you think gold backed will be good for gold prices?
Do you think being gold backed will mean gold is valued at $5,000, gold backed mean spot for gold for that currency or in the case of Utah will be set ie $1200.
Plus gold backed usually coincides with lowing of the prices of goods, not valuing gold up?
Do you think being gold backed will mean gold is valued at $5,000, gold backed mean spot for gold for that currency or in the case of Utah will be set ie $1200.
Plus gold backed usually coincides with lowing of the prices of goods, not valuing gold up?
^ I didn't say anything about gold backed.
btw, I guess all this printing money backed by nothing is what mainly contributed to keeping PM prices down. If the USD was still always gold backed could the Fed have printed all that helicopter money out of thin air?
btw, I guess all this printing money backed by nothing is what mainly contributed to keeping PM prices down. If the USD was still always gold backed could the Fed have printed all that helicopter money out of thin air?
mmissinglink
Active Member
skyrocket,
You are woefully wrong. Your argument suffers from a big fat smelly logical fallacy.
That the bill passed is not a causal relationship with Paul's incoherence. ( Post hoc ergo propter hoc )
Paul certainly was incoherent in much of his mumbling testimony.
As I've already stated, I'd be happy if the legislation passed both houses of Congress in spite of Paul's lousy performance. It passed Committee, it still has a long way to go.
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You are woefully wrong. Your argument suffers from a big fat smelly logical fallacy.
That the bill passed is not a causal relationship with Paul's incoherence. ( Post hoc ergo propter hoc )
Paul certainly was incoherent in much of his mumbling testimony.
As I've already stated, I'd be happy if the legislation passed both houses of Congress in spite of Paul's lousy performance. It passed Committee, it still has a long way to go.
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I hope it's soon I in Texas in December, if I have time I'll make an effort to visit. It will be a novel place to visit to get a bucket full of junk coins.
Pity it's only US legal tender coins, it could have been a PM Mecca, hopefully when and if I get there the powers that be in Utah have set the price below spot. But to make this work I suspect they will have to set it above to get enough coins into the state for circulation.
Pity it's only US legal tender coins, it could have been a PM Mecca, hopefully when and if I get there the powers that be in Utah have set the price below spot. But to make this work I suspect they will have to set it above to get enough coins into the state for circulation.
Skyrocket said:
precedent ok so again how many oz of worthless gold will u give me for my precious precious dog turds?
Skyrocket said:Court Jester said:
I'll send you one ounce of my precious silver if you show me video proof of you eating one of your precious dog turds
why would I eat one of my precious dog turds they worth their weight in gold, that would be like using strips from the mona lisa to roll joints with.
mmissinglink
Active Member
It (the value of any inanimate thing) really basically boils down to supply and demand. If lots of people will demand CJ's dog's turd and are willing to pay handsomely for it and CJ restricts the supply, then it's value could conceivably be greater than gold.
That dog turd, gold, and paper money have exactly the same intrinsic value....zero. Any and all value either has is value that individuals or groups of people collectively attach to it.
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That dog turd, gold, and paper money have exactly the same intrinsic value....zero. Any and all value either has is value that individuals or groups of people collectively attach to it.
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Court Jester said:Skyrocket said:Court Jester said:
I'll send you one ounce of my precious silver if you show me video proof of you eating one of your precious dog turds
why would I eat one of my precious dog turds they worth their weight in gold, that would be like using strips from the mona lisa to roll joints with.
Fine. Keep your precious turds and I'll keep my precious silver.
Until everyone cottons on to CJ's practice of forcefeeding the dog to triple his daily supply before moving on to secreting extra dogs away in the basement and pretending that the original dog is now producing 20kg a day. Inflation skyrockets and everyone's savings are worth shit.mmissinglink said:
bordsilver said:
I have tripped the output by having 3 x dogs not force feeding 1 dog ;p
This thread started out interesting....and now is a bit on the nose.
Can we get back to the topic?
Idaho seems to be the next to make a move in this space :-
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...helmingly-end-income-taxation-precious-metals
I think it's very encouraging that Americans are waking up the issues, and while I don't see this creating a huge demand for PMs in the short term, I do agree with Skyrocket that this sort of policy could change across the US states quite quickly.
Can we get back to the topic?
Idaho seems to be the next to make a move in this space :-
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...helmingly-end-income-taxation-precious-metals
I think it's very encouraging that Americans are waking up the issues, and while I don't see this creating a huge demand for PMs in the short term, I do agree with Skyrocket that this sort of policy could change across the US states quite quickly.