Still unsure what to buy in bulk

S

Sonic

New Member
I got to thinking about my exit strategy. I would rather be able to unload a lot at one time than have to worry about making several small transactions. So unless I change my mind again, I've decided to buy one tube at a time. The question is which? ASEs because of the easy recognition (and I live in USA)? Maples because of their purity, and also being from the same continent? Buffaloes to save me a little money, and focus solely on spot price? Buffaloes are just ugly to me though and it seems like they're some of the most commonly faked coins.

Those are the main three coins I'm considering, but I don't know if there are better options or other things to consider. I want to keep it simple. I've changed my mind about messing with semi-numismatics, though I might still do that a little bit. I don't think I really want to get the larger bars either. I plan to set money aside to make the same easy purchase as often as my finances will allow. And if possible (I haven't really looked into this) I will buy tubes full of older coins, if only a few years, and watch the premium rise quicker than if I were to buy all new.
 
In your situation, I would stick to ASE's. I would save each invoice with the tube to prove providence. And if you like the occasional semi numi, only buy one, never to be sold.
 
That extra 9 in the Canadian probably isn't going to be of any significance. The buffaloes are ugly, I wasn't aware of any fakes but I know that many different mints can produce them. ASEs are good because you have a flexible exit strategy. You might want to unload them all in one go to purchase an expensive item, or you might want to sell a couple each week to assist in your retirement.
 
if it's for sudden liquidation at a very low premium is there a reason you don't want bars? I read you saying you didn't but if your going to be selling quickly and all at once then that probably means at a loss of premium if you buy ASEs, going to a dealer likely means losing all of your premium. Right now you can get bars at a low enough premium that you could take them in to a dealer and only lose as much as you would selling ASEs privately after buying new, going to a dealer means you get your cash in hand after walking in the store.

I actually like ASE's, just not their price tag.
 
ASEs

The bid-ask spread on CMLs is larger than the spread on ASEs. Using the Apmex web site, 25 CMLs would cost $498.25 and resell to the dealer for $433.25 or a loss of $65.00. 25 ASEs would cost $518.25 and resell for $462.25 or a loss of $56.00. On top of the lower premium risk, ASEs are easier to sell.

I have purchased and sold multiple mint boxes of ASEs at one time. One phone call and you are done. Unfortunately, most of the ASEs weren't mine. :(
 
I say ase's as well. Where I work at, ase's are preferred over standard silver rounds....with the exception of engelhards of course lol
 
Thanks for the input. Sounds like ASE is the way to go.

To phrenzy, really the only reason I don't want to stack bars is because I like the idea of being able to crack open a tube and sell as many (or as little) as I want or need to at the time. 10oz bars are not bad, but I wouldn't get any larger than that. I will most likely be selling full tubes but if for whatever unforeseen reason, if I ever need to sell less it will be much easier. Maybe that's not a very good reason, but there it is lol
 
As for as the last thought in my original post, is it practical or easy to get full tubes of older dates? I'm sure it would be more expensive, but if I could just go a few years back, I think it would pay off. Also, is it possible to get mixed years in tubes? I'm not even sure if I would want that, but just curious.

Or are people less likely to care about dates for ASEs? Seems like that could be the case but I know if you search for individual ones the price steadily climbs the further back you go. I think 1986 is about $50 if I recall correctly.
 
phrenzy said:
if it's for sudden liquidation at a very low premium is there a reason you don't want bars? I read you saying you didn't but if your going to be selling quickly and all at once then that probably means at a loss of premium if you buy ASEs, going to a dealer likely means losing all of your premium. Right now you can get bars at a low enough premium that you could take them in to a dealer and only lose as much as you would selling ASEs privately after buying new, going to a dealer means you get your cash in hand after walking in the store.

I actually like ASE's, just not their price tag.
Click to expand...

I feel like going to a local dealer to sell of may not be the best 'exit strategy'. if you have spent the time and money stacking, its worth the small bit of extra effort/time to sell it to a buyer that will pay a premium, like apmex. one of the things that makes me feel secure in buying my ASE's from them is seeing their (constantly updated) buy price is normally pretty close to what im paying for them. with a margin of profit for them, of course. you can call and lock in a sell price, as long as the physical makes it to them within a set period of time, they pay you the price you agreed upon when ya called.

TLDR: dont sell your ASE's for spot, silly.
 
Well I'm sure I would probably sell online. Stacking is a long process so I don't plan to rush the selling process when the time comes. The only time I would ever sell to a pawn or coin shop is if I was really hurting for the money, and it certainly wouldn't be my whole stack.

I'm kind of glad you all recommended ASE. That's what I started with out of simplicity and that's what I'm coming back to. Six months ago I never would have guessed so much though would go into buying and selling silver!
 
Lenny85 said:
phrenzy said:
if it's for sudden liquidation at a very low premium is there a reason you don't want bars? I read you saying you didn't but if your going to be selling quickly and all at once then that probably means at a loss of premium if you buy ASEs, going to a dealer likely means losing all of your premium. Right now you can get bars at a low enough premium that you could take them in to a dealer and only lose as much as you would selling ASEs privately after buying new, going to a dealer means you get your cash in hand after walking in the store.

I actually like ASE's, just not their price tag.
Click to expand...

I feel like going to a local dealer to sell of may not be the best 'exit strategy'. if you have spent the time and money stacking, its worth the small bit of extra effort/time to sell it to a buyer that will pay a premium, like apmex. one of the things that makes me feel secure in buying my ASE's from them is seeing their (constantly updated) buy price is normally pretty close to what im paying for them. with a margin of profit for them, of course. you can call and lock in a sell price, as long as the physical makes it to them within a set period of time, they pay you the price you agreed upon when ya called.

TLDR: dont sell your ASE's for spot, silly.
Click to expand...

I completely agree and my sales strategy would always be private sales but the OP said he may want to exit quickly, a lot at one time. Even if your selling privately if you want to liquidate in a single sale in 36 hours your going to take a bigger premium hit on ASE than bars.

Though if as the OP later says he might want to chip away at snack buys and sales over time then rounds/coins are probably a good idea.

Might I suggest then holding a core position of 10oz-1kg bars and then about 30-50% ASE. Then you have the best of both worlds, you can buy and sell in bits and pieces and still flush the lot as quick as you want with minimal loss. My holdings are made up that way, some big bars for weight when it's time to offload the bulk, small bars and coins/rounds so I can trade in small lots until then and some numi and semi numi for fun.
 
If you collect for several years and acquire a large amount of PM,the thing here in the states is, if you sell a large quantity of bars that triggers a 1040B tax form if sold to dealers, not on coins.
 
If you're in the US---as said above, ASE's are the best for liquidity. They also resell at a better margin than you'll get for Maples in the US. My LCS pays $1 over spot for BU ASEs but under spot for bars and that 'fourth 9' on the Maples means nothing to them. The situation is probably reversed in Canada, but you're always best sticking with your own "national coin" if you're stacking bullion in bulk.

If/when you resell, you're best off if you can do so privately or to show vendors so no paperwork is initiated. IRS paper is triggered by transaction dollar amounts, not by a bars vs. coins consideration.

If you still can't resist the urge to do some token playing around with semi-numis stuff, buy a ceremonial tube of 1oz Perth Mint Lunars or Kooks first thing when they get released every year. They come very well-sealed, so you can just put the tube away. That's what I do.
 
It really still depends on who you are (including where you think you will be selling), what your perception of the future is, and what might be the reasons for you to sell.

If you believe that the element silver will some day in the future be treated or function as money by the masses because of some world-wide end of times crisis that results in all fiat money being virtually completely worthless indefinitely, then it shouldn't matter how ugly a round is or how recognizable a coin is because those who would buy silver in a SHTF scenario like that are going to be easily capable of discerning real silver from anything else. And that being the case, you'd want to buy what is least costly and easy to store. This, or something very similar, should be your first consideration: http://www.apmex.com/product/43773/25-kilo-bag-silver-grain-shot-9999-fine-peoles-803-75-oz


There are many different views of the future that stackers and precious metal coin buyers have. You really have to know what is your view before you possibly waste a lot of money on ASE's. And I'm not saying that ASE's are necessarily a poor choice, but they are a worse choice under certain scenarios is my view. No one can really know unless they know a tremendous amount of detail about you and your beliefs.


Personally, I no longer subscribe to that SHTF scenario and so I am not afraid and I feel very secure to buy certain coins and medals that come with higher premiums and will likely appreciate (some significantly). But that's me...you have to know what you believe.....and then make purchases accordingly.



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there are a number of precious metal coins that are exempt from government reporting regardless of their sales quantities. These pieces include, but are not limited to gold coins of fractional denominations; American Gold and Silver Eagle Coins; US currency created after the establishment of the IRS's Reportable Items List and any foreign currency pieces not explicitly mentioned in the above section/

I cut this from US tax regulations Fat Freddy, this is what I was referring to in regards to selling "Large quantities of bars to a dealer not to a private under the counter buyer!
 
Rather than go through and thank each post I'll just say thanks, you've all been very helpful.


To Mmissinglink, I don't really know anything at all about the grain shot that you recommended, I've heard it mentioned here and there and people seem to say stay away from it unless you know what you're doing. Something like that sounds like it could be harder to sell, at least harder than the most common silver coin in the world, for example.

I try to keep an open mind, but that doesn't necessarily mean I believe in the doomsday SHTF stuff either. I think it's possible, and I do believe that a collapse of some sort will come eventually. But we probably won't be bartering for food and water. I do, however, think that it will bring a return to a more widespread trust in the PM market and I think that will be profit time for all of us. Even if no collapse of the dollar ever occurs (unlikely to me) I still want to stack for financial security, build a nice little savings and keep up with inflation. Maybe come out ahead in the end, by a nose or a long shot, who knows!
 
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