FortySeven
Member
Give me a week or two...
Stacking PM's from scrap electronics
- Thread starter miniroo
- Start date
Saturday morning, metal market's are closed, no spare cash to go buy bullion, it's the 8th of the 8th, so what to do?
Oh, I know, Go out and get some lucky gold for free!
LCD TV's have all but taken over from the big old CRT TV, not so good for the old school scrapper chasing copper,
but a nice boost for scrappers chasing gold.
LCD's are simple to scrap and much easier to handle compared to CRT's and is mostly all sell-able, whereas a crt still left us with a lead lined tube that's difficult to recycle and heavy to handle.
Finger Strip Boards are one of the circuit boards in an LCD, whilst there isn't much info on finger strips yet, they will be a much talked about item once more people accumulate large enough stocks to process and recover the PM's, then we'll have better idea's on how much gold can be got.
anyway, this is my early take on finger strip boards..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P38YaRmAaUI[/youtube]
Oh, I know, Go out and get some lucky gold for free!
LCD TV's have all but taken over from the big old CRT TV, not so good for the old school scrapper chasing copper,
but a nice boost for scrappers chasing gold.
LCD's are simple to scrap and much easier to handle compared to CRT's and is mostly all sell-able, whereas a crt still left us with a lead lined tube that's difficult to recycle and heavy to handle.
Finger Strip Boards are one of the circuit boards in an LCD, whilst there isn't much info on finger strips yet, they will be a much talked about item once more people accumulate large enough stocks to process and recover the PM's, then we'll have better idea's on how much gold can be got.
anyway, this is my early take on finger strip boards..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P38YaRmAaUI[/youtube]
Collecting e-waste for PM recovery from hard rubbish collection has it's limits.
Whilst LCD TV's have added to pm recovery with mostly circuit boards now, there's only a small window of time to gather stuff as it's seasonal.
So the next step for product is to advertise to businesses, e-waste recycling at the highest level is very competitive, but on the lower end there's a lot of opportunity
for anyone wanting to advertise and get the word out, large recyclers don't do small pick-up's or they charge quite a bit for the service.
So offering a free pick-up service and accepting small qty's may not make you a millionaire, but it can be quite lucrative at times.
Here's a video of a good pick-up from an IT dept' of a larger company, not all pick-ups are as large but some can be huge, like having to hire a truck and do multiple loads.
Before I scrap stuff it's important to research what I have, PM recovery is usually the last resort and a lot of things can be sold first but with IT equipment being very high end, they can have high yields of PM's..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9jwLPFEKus[/youtube]
Whilst LCD TV's have added to pm recovery with mostly circuit boards now, there's only a small window of time to gather stuff as it's seasonal.
So the next step for product is to advertise to businesses, e-waste recycling at the highest level is very competitive, but on the lower end there's a lot of opportunity
for anyone wanting to advertise and get the word out, large recyclers don't do small pick-up's or they charge quite a bit for the service.
So offering a free pick-up service and accepting small qty's may not make you a millionaire, but it can be quite lucrative at times.
Here's a video of a good pick-up from an IT dept' of a larger company, not all pick-ups are as large but some can be huge, like having to hire a truck and do multiple loads.
Before I scrap stuff it's important to research what I have, PM recovery is usually the last resort and a lot of things can be sold first but with IT equipment being very high end, they can have high yields of PM's..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9jwLPFEKus[/youtube]
Charles Thorn
New Member
Mr miniroo I feel like I've been educated. I started looking into scrapping in the past but all the research I did doesn't even compare to what I just learned this forum. Thanks!
This is a great thread and thanks for the effort mniroo. 
It would be nice if the unhelpful comments could be removed as they are a blight on the informative content. If you decide this aint for you then keep it to yourself.
PS: feel free to delete this unhelpful comment :lol:
It would be nice if the unhelpful comments could be removed as they are a blight on the informative content. If you decide this aint for you then keep it to yourself.PS: feel free to delete this unhelpful comment :lol:
sterling-nz
Well-Known Member
Lot of work dude.
Just subbed your channel though to see what it's all about.
Just subbed your channel though to see what it's all about.
hiho said:This is a great thread and thanks for the effort mniroo.
PS: feel free to delete this unhelpful comment :lol:
heh, thanks hiho
yeah it's quite a phenomenon, some just don't realise information is valuable, especially inside information.
you don't hear of KFC telling us how they spice their chicken, if they did there'd be a lot more chicken shops around selling the same thing.
when someone comes up with a valuable process they patent it, so no-one else can benefit from it.
I think in the end, most people take it for what it is and it's easy to blank out the negative types because they are only here for their own entertainment,
it shows in their overall input within forums, they talk a lot but really have nothing to say.
I'll keep at it though, and those that might be interested or just find it entertaining will keep looking.
Motherboards and Circuit Boards in general can be sold to e-waste refiners or myself which gives you around 1/3 the value of the recovered pm's.
Another way to value add to your circuit boards is to depopulate them of all the components of value and sell them to hobby refiners on ebay etc.
The third option is to process them yourself but that requires a lot of research and the setting up of various refining setups, so for most who gather circuit boards
will either sell them complete or depopulate to sell, which can actually net you as much value as you would processing them for PM's yourself.
Anyone that has tried to depopulate say a motherboard by hand will know just how long it takes using mostly a chisel and hammer, for a few boards here and there it's probably ok but for large qty's of circuit boards the time involved is difficult to justify the value.
So what to do?
Well, after looking into various known methods, like using expensive purpose built machinery, a heat gun or hot sand bath, I have come up with the best, easiest and most fun method.
Firstly an entry level machine to do the job requires many thousands of dollars so for most that's overkill.
Heat Guns on circuit boards don't work for all components and I don't recommend because in order to apply enough heat to remove components your also melting the board itself, thus omitting toxic fumes into the environment.
Hot Sand Bath is what many scrapers believe to be the best method but again you are releasing toxic fumes and it actually doesn't work on large circuit boards.
What you will find on youtube is hot sand baths being used for small circuit boards, mostly cell phone boards.
Well cell phone boards are only a small percentage of what you would have, they are easy to depopulate because they don't have many components, just some IC chips.
The main problem with sand bath for large boards is once you bring your sand up to 600 degrees and put your board in, the heat drops a lot because the board absorbs the heat, it's a slow process and once you've done one board you need to bring that heat up again, so it would take all day to do a dozen motherboards, not to mention you would need to remove all the aluminium capacitors beforehand because they will explode at 600 degrees.
This video shows my idea on depopulating boards in a quick, clean and fun way.
I can rip through a motherboard in a minute, removing all the components I want and leaving a board that could still be sold as a low grade to a refiner.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZN7TZM6Trg[/youtube]
The first video was done as soon as I setup the air hammer, I missed a few points so I added an update video to clarify a few things..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6eOab7b6BE[/youtube]
Another way to value add to your circuit boards is to depopulate them of all the components of value and sell them to hobby refiners on ebay etc.
The third option is to process them yourself but that requires a lot of research and the setting up of various refining setups, so for most who gather circuit boards
will either sell them complete or depopulate to sell, which can actually net you as much value as you would processing them for PM's yourself.
Anyone that has tried to depopulate say a motherboard by hand will know just how long it takes using mostly a chisel and hammer, for a few boards here and there it's probably ok but for large qty's of circuit boards the time involved is difficult to justify the value.
So what to do?
Well, after looking into various known methods, like using expensive purpose built machinery, a heat gun or hot sand bath, I have come up with the best, easiest and most fun method.
Firstly an entry level machine to do the job requires many thousands of dollars so for most that's overkill.
Heat Guns on circuit boards don't work for all components and I don't recommend because in order to apply enough heat to remove components your also melting the board itself, thus omitting toxic fumes into the environment.
Hot Sand Bath is what many scrapers believe to be the best method but again you are releasing toxic fumes and it actually doesn't work on large circuit boards.
What you will find on youtube is hot sand baths being used for small circuit boards, mostly cell phone boards.
Well cell phone boards are only a small percentage of what you would have, they are easy to depopulate because they don't have many components, just some IC chips.
The main problem with sand bath for large boards is once you bring your sand up to 600 degrees and put your board in, the heat drops a lot because the board absorbs the heat, it's a slow process and once you've done one board you need to bring that heat up again, so it would take all day to do a dozen motherboards, not to mention you would need to remove all the aluminium capacitors beforehand because they will explode at 600 degrees.
This video shows my idea on depopulating boards in a quick, clean and fun way.
I can rip through a motherboard in a minute, removing all the components I want and leaving a board that could still be sold as a low grade to a refiner.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZN7TZM6Trg[/youtube]
The first video was done as soon as I setup the air hammer, I missed a few points so I added an update video to clarify a few things..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6eOab7b6BE[/youtube]
Just a tip with your chisel you dnt really have to spend money on buying a quality one just use a oxy torch if got one heat the tip till glowing and dip in oil it will harden it up real good. Being a boiler maker I had to use chisel alot and done this many times when was apprentice I had to go around to the tradies to collect all there chisels that need sharpening and do all of them.
The oil puts more carbon it the tip thus making it harder so sharp first have the tip dead straight then heat then dip motor oil works fine. Just make sure the tip is sharpened straight before you harden it it will last alot longer and you'll have a bigger surface area to chisel with.
FortySeven
Member
FortySeven said:
OK, it took a lot longer than that. I've been distracted with other things.
I did some investigating a few weeks ago, and I'm finally getting around to reporting it.
This is by no means a rigorous analysis, but enough to get some idea.
The quantities I used were too small for good accuracy, and I believe the main error is in the final weighing of a very small amount of material.
I started with 22 HC-49 package crystals (the most common size). Both old and new, and from both consumer and high end mainframe gear.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-1.jpg]
Breaking them open takes about 20-30 seconds each.
I'm making the reasonable assumption that the silver is contained only on the internal electrical section, and none is in the can section.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-2.jpg]
The gizards are weighed.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-3.jpg]
Then dissolved in nitric acid.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-4.jpg]
When all that's going to dissolve has done so, the solution was filtered, and the filter washed through to the filtrate to capture all the silver nitrate.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-5.jpg]
Notice some gold! This is from 2 or 3 of the crystals.
The clear filtrate containing silver nitrate (and any other-stuff-nitrate).
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-6.jpg]
Adding some hydrochloric acid causes the silver to precipitate out as insoluble silver chloride.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-7.jpg]
Not sure what the yellow/green colour is. (Lead chloride?)
Letting the precipitates settle to the bottom.
[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/17223_xtals-8.jpg]
No more pictures...
After this, it was decanted, washed, and settled a couple of times to remove soluble compounds from the wet chloride, which was then allowed to dry. There was bugger all of it, just a scum at the bottom of the beaker. Weighing before and after washing out the residue, I get a value of about 0.05g of AgCl. (which is 75% silver by weight)
This is the biggest source of error due to the small quantity and the accuracy of the scales at that amount.
Conclusions:-
21g of crystals yielded about 0.04g of silver. (very roughly)
To get an ounce of silver, around 750 crystals would be required, and at least 5-6 hours work.
So based on that, it's not worth the trouble.
But, there is considerable room for error in all the above. I could be out by a factor of 2 or more, but I seriously doubt that it could be much higher than about 4.
In the very unlikely case of being out by a factor of 10, that's still 75 crystals and an hours work for an ounce of silver...
However, the error is more probably in the other direction - due to more than just silver chloride being in the residue.
To be really sure, a much larger quantity would need to be processed, but I'm convinced it would still prove non-viable.
(unless silver goes to the moon, or lots of crystals with gold can be found)
FYI...
sterling-nz
Well-Known Member
I went to my scrap guy yesterday and after playing with some gold he handed me a jar of what was supposed to be platinum wire.
Neither of us had seen it before and both are skeptical .
He has not paid the guy for it yet as it needs further testing.
It looks to have an orange corrosion going on with it and some is twisted like the wire you see on wine bottle tops.
Any insight with out being able to see it?
It went black when acid tested .
Neither of us had seen it before and both are skeptical .
He has not paid the guy for it yet as it needs further testing.
It looks to have an orange corrosion going on with it and some is twisted like the wire you see on wine bottle tops.
Any insight with out being able to see it?
It went black when acid tested .
yep it does dissolve in aqua regia, as with other pm's but to test for Platinum is another method.
But it's certainly a good way to store your PM's safely, instead of a safe you can store quite a lot in a 1 litre bottle on the shelf in the shed
But it's certainly a good way to store your PM's safely, instead of a safe you can store quite a lot in a 1 litre bottle on the shelf in the shed
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Thank you for the great videos miniroo
Can I ask you about safety. There is a lot of controversy about the toxicity and carcinogenic action of several of these metals in particular Ruthenium ?
Do you take any precautions about dust inhalation. masks etc ?
thanks again
Can I ask you about safety. There is a lot of controversy about the toxicity and carcinogenic action of several of these metals in particular Ruthenium ?
Do you take any precautions about dust inhalation. masks etc ?
thanks again