SMSF property loans a bomb

[nonrecourse]

Well, I agree you can't write laws to stop people being stupid, but you can write laws to reduce the instances of people doing stupid things.

There is the crux where we really differ. I don't believe the laws are written to protect people from themselves but rather are written to look like the regulators are doing something. Just like the CBA investment scam, Storm financial, etc. By attempting to guess and putting in place more hand holding you destroy the essence of what is so great about Self Managing. As a trustee everyone now has to sign off before they start that the are aware of the responsibilities. The whole annual audit process for what is a very small non compliance yield says it all. Regulators justifying their jobs rather than applying the laws that are in place. Demanding more and more regulation is destroying the flexibility and that is exactly what the Industry and retail funds want.

Many people, for example, do not understand mathematics. That doesn't mean they should read more self help books or be encouraged to "drive the investment", it means they're innumerate and will likely remain so for the rest of their lives. If you chopped the total off the bottom of their Coles receipt, they wouldn't be able to add up the items and figure out how much they just spent on their weekly grocery shopping.

As someone who was a high school drop out its not about how smart you are. It is about repetition and never letting go. To quote Calvin Coolidge "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

From my childhood to now the most fiscally literate people I have come across are not scholars but rather salt of the earth individuals with a whole lot of street smarts and basic common sense. I eventually did go back to University in my 30's but it did not teach me how to be an investor. In fact I would argue the more education you have the more unlikely you will be fiscally literate

I really don't see how you can look at the snapshot in the first post where only 1% of the advice received on borrowing through SMSFs could objectively labeled as "good" without seeing at least the potential for things to go horribly wrong for a lot of people.

What I see is an agenda to if not stop then severely restrict SMSF's from borrowing money to invest in REAL ESTATE. If that happens the industry and retail scam artists will be able to relax and carry on scamming their suckers (members). I think purchasing a residential property in an SMSF is a poor investment why? because the bleeding hearts have given the tenants an open ticket to screw the landlords. But its not up to the government or the pink fairies at the bottom of the garden to tell me or anyone else what property to buy. So your happy to see people scammed in the share market by the wall street lizards but you can't understand where I'm coming from?

From my posting above there is approximately 15,000 residential properties of which probably a hand full will go belly up due to bad advice. That is called investors risk get over it an move on.

Since we're not going to let people starve on the street if they lose all their super in a dud property deal, the least we can do is hold super investments to a higher standard, particularly in relation to borrowings and licensing for people who want to call themselves advisers.

Why not let them be hung out to dry? Why hand over the management to idiots called investment advisers who don't have a clue about property and live off other peoples earnings and of whom most are wage slaves.

Kind Regards
non recourse

 

[nonrecourse]

Just a quick question none recourse - do you fell lucky? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I530sPVQSc8 that is, back 20 years ago did you actually truly and I mean truly believe that your property investment would never take a dive, even a dip? in those 20 years I know it's history and a hypothetical but I do applaud you however, back about 18 years ago did you honestly think "yep, I'm 100% right this is the way forward and property would never drop" or did you like others just roll the dice and it simply came up trumps :/

The dirty harry of commercial property investing eh? I like that To answer your question I will answer it with an Ernest William Henley poem entitled Invictus

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

This has been the longest bull run in Australian property history. I know the road to riches starts with the first step but if you were to start right now, today 2014 knowing that there was 20 years behind you that property has risen up hill, would you invest in property? I mean take step back from yourself and all the financial wealth you have honestly earned over those past 20 years...if you were in your early 20's and was starting from scratch right now? at $800K standard home - would you take that leap of faith? do you feel lucky punk?

Dirty Harry did his homework. He knew his market. Would I start right now? With the internet and the wealth of free information available today? Bloody oath I would. No prior knowledge just a hunger to be the master of my fate and be captain of my soul.

It's the $64000 question for most of us holding back from investing in property right now and who are above 40 years of age. Yes we certainly were wrong, and in fact I cringe that point daily that I didn't invest back when a stock standard 3 bedroom was about $270K but bloody hell :/ - what crystal ball could have imagined 20 years of growth?

People think that the REAL ESTATE market is one big market, its not. Its hundreds of thousands of little markets each one unique. Most people are cowards when it comes to investing. Fear is simply ignorance because you have no control. In order to control your fears you need to take control. You cannot banish fear it has its place in your investment road map but you do need to manage it. Black swans are events that come out of left field and king hit you. Black swan events happen to people who have no fear.

That is one of the reasons I evolved from being an atheist to believing in god.

God doesn't determine my faith I do. I strive to be captain of my soul.

Kind Regards
non recourse

 

[col0016]

Well I really like that poem, cheers.

 

[Big A.D.]

Well, I agree you can't write laws to stop people being stupid, but you can write laws to reduce the instances of people doing stupid things.

There is the crux where we really differ. I don't believe the laws are written to protect people from themselves but rather are written to look like the regulators are doing something. Just like the CBA investment scam, Storm financial, etc. By attempting to guess and putting in place more hand holding you destroy the essence of what is so great about Self Managing. As a trustee everyone now has to sign off before they start that the are aware of the responsibilities. The whole annual audit process for what is a very small non compliance yield says it all. Regulators justifying their jobs rather than applying the laws that are in place. Demanding more and more regulation is destroying the flexibility and that is exactly what the Industry and retail funds want.

Yes, since this seems to be the main point of contention, I'm not talking so much about regulating what trustees do as buyers but more about how various industries behave as sellers.

And yes, I agree that the big managed funds hate the fact that SMSFs are draining their funds under management and depriving them of fees, but they do have a place: getting gouged an extra $1000 a year by a managed fund is better than losing $100k of a dud property deal put together by a slick, unlicensed real estate "consultant" intent on earning fat commissions.

That's not an endorsement of big, managed funds but just because they can act badly doesn't mean the system should be made easier for people to rush off and invest their retirement savings in something worse.

I certainly agree with you that common sense and experience offer the best chances of success and in most cases those things can't be formally taught, but again, a lot of people are stupid and ignorant and they get one shot at saving for retirement. Yes, we can be all morally superior about how they should have read the fine print or should have known better than to believe someone calling themselves an investment adviser wasn't really acting in their best interests (because they don't need to according to section 7, subsection (b) of the blah blah blah Act, as amended), but you and me and all the other taxpayers out there are going to be picking up the pieces when things go wrong. We'll be stuck paying for the pensions of those people who commit no crime in investing unwisely, and some smart aleck salesman will be kicking back and enjoying spending all those commission fees.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

but you and me and all the other taxpayers out there are going to be picking up the pieces when things go wrong. We'll be stuck paying for the pensions of those people who commit no crime in investing unwisely, and some smart aleck salesman will be kicking back and enjoying spending all those commission fees.

You know what the solution to that problem is?

 

[Big A.D.]

but you and me and all the other taxpayers out there are going to be picking up the pieces when things go wrong. We'll be stuck paying for the pensions of those people who commit no crime in investing unwisely, and some smart aleck salesman will be kicking back and enjoying spending all those commission fees.

You know what the solution to that problem is?

Well, if you're feeling as misanthropic as usual, I'd guess it might be something along the lines of "screw 'em".

 

[mmm....shiney!]

but you and me and all the other taxpayers out there are going to be picking up the pieces when things go wrong. We'll be stuck paying for the pensions of those people who commit no crime in investing unwisely, and some smart aleck salesman will be kicking back and enjoying spending all those commission fees.

You know what the solution to that problem is?

Well, if you're feeling as misanthropic as usual, I'd guess it might be something along the lines of "screw 'em".

I had to google "misanthropic". And if you think I'm misanthropic then you have seriously ill-judged me. :/

It's a broken record i know, but if we remove the taxation system we remove the shared risk - then you won't have to concern yourself with your tax $ going towards picking up all the bits and pieces and supporting someone on the pension. You can then campaign freely about educating people in financial literacy from an altruistic platform as opposed to an enforced shareholder's platform.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

And as far as being misanthropic goes, in the main I would class those who are supportive of government control and a powerful State as displaying far more hatred and distrust of human species than a Libertarian. In fact, the core concept of Libertarianism is as far removed from misanthropy as any political system can be.