Slabbed Bullion...why?

SilverPOD

Member
Silver Stacker
G'Day Stackers,

I've come across quite a few 'slabbed' bullion coins, Kooks, lunar etc. What am I missing here? why are people charging far more for these coins then the coin and I assume the cost of getting it graded is worth? Does the slabbing keep the coin in better condition or does it give it a more none fake appeal?

I also tend to see more NGC then PCGS bullion coins do others see that trend?

Thanks for your thoughts
 
There's quite a number of obvious reasons why there are (often high) premiums on (certain) slabbed bullion coins....it's the same reasons why any numismatic coins are slabbed. Some of those reasons include:

Authenticity (elimination of fakes)

Professional third party grading

Protection

Online accessible-from-anywhere census

Online accessible-from-anywhere price guide for many of the slabbed coins




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Grading creates a stratification based on the quality of the coin. There is always a market for the nicest of things and grading coins identifies the nicest of the issue. Those nicest coins command a higher premium that the rest of the lot.

Some who are not proponents of grading may argue that with modern coins grading is rather silly because they are all pretty much the same top notch quality and were never intended for circulation. I won't delve into that discussion here except to say there is currently quite a vibrant market in the US for graded modern coins.
 
I am sure there are valid reasons to slab some bullion, but why would do people bother slabbing a 2016 kangaroo or ASE or other coins with multimillion mintages.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I am sure there are valid reasons to slab some bullion, but why would do people bother slabbing a 2016 kangaroo or ASE or other coins with multimillion mintages.


Why do many people regularly wash and polish a mass produced very inexpensive car with basic duco and even buy seat covers and dash mats/floor mats to protect the cheapest moulded materials use in that cars manufacture?
 
fishtaco said:
Ipv6Ready said:
I am sure there are valid reasons to slab some bullion, but why would do people bother slabbing a 2016 kangaroo or ASE or other coins with multimillion mintages.


Why do many people regularly wash and polish a mass produced very inexpensive car with basic duco and even buy seat covers and dash mats/floor mats to protect the cheapest moulded materials use in that cars manufacture?


So true, but surely no one buys a new Hyundai and spend about the same as purchase price on accessories Hahhahhhhaha.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
fishtaco said:
Ipv6Ready said:
I am sure there are valid reasons to slab some bullion, but why would do people bother slabbing a 2016 kangaroo or ASE or other coins with multimillion mintages.


Why do many people regularly wash and polish a mass produced very inexpensive car with basic duco and even buy seat covers and dash mats/floor mats to protect the cheapest moulded materials use in that cars manufacture?


So true, but surely no one buys a new Hyundai and spend about the same as purchase price on accessories Hahhahhhhaha.

Want to make a bet ;)
"Autosalon"
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I am sure there are valid reasons to slab some bullion, but why would do people bother slabbing a 2016 kangaroo or ASE or other coins with multimillion mintages.



See post #4.





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This is just a few of many, many, many examples of why coins minted in the millions are slabbed:


Morgan Dollar 1887-S
Mintage: 20,290,000
Value of slabbed NGC MS68 = approx. USD $30,000



Morgan Dollar 1886-S
Mintage: 19,963,000
Value of slabbed NGC MS68 = approx. USD $20,000



Morgan Dollar 1880-S
Mintage: 8,900,000
Value of slabbed NGC MS68 = approx. USD $45,000



In 50 years long after most of the 2016 Kangaroo or ASE have become fodder for the melting pot or have significant surface wear due to stackers handling them as they would a used toothpick, perhaps the highest graded slabbed ASE's and Roos that are remain will buy you a brand new 2066 car!


;)



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^^ Morgan's are bit different though. MS68 Morgan was already rare when NCG opened its doors.

What I am alluding to about eagles and Kangaroos is that all decently stored coins in tubes unopened will be MS68, MS69 and MS70.

though a good priced 1986 slabed ASE might be a long term bet,
 
Ipv6Ready said:
^^ Morgan's are bit different though. MS68 Morgan was already rare when NCG opened its doors.

What I am alluding to about eagles and Kangaroos is that all decently stored coins in tubes unopened will be MS68, MS69 and MS70.

though a good priced 1986 slabed ASE might be a long term bet,

What about the dreaded milk spot?
 
Silver_Dealar said:
Ipv6Ready said:
^^ Morgan's are bit different though. MS68 Morgan was already rare when NCG opened its doors.

What I am alluding to about eagles and Kangaroos is that all decently stored coins in tubes unopened will be MS68, MS69 and MS70.

though a good priced 1986 slabed ASE might be a long term bet,

What about the dreaded milk spot?

I think that is another lottery. Some will win some will lose. Might be a better bet to store it for few year and only select clean ones for slabbing.

Having said above, I think there is a market for slabbing newer, exotic or low mintage coins or medal, but the OP was about generic bullion.

Having said all this, how much would it be for an Australian person to get these coins slabed, I'd imagine postage is the killer for us.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
^^ Morgan's are bit different though. MS68 Morgan was already rare when NCG opened its doors.

What I am alluding to about eagles and Kangaroos is that all decently stored coins in tubes unopened will be MS68, MS69 and MS70.

though a good priced 1986 slabed ASE might be a long term bet,



Yes, it is different as you pointed out, of course (some or perhaps even most Morgans saw some amount of circulation), but it's the same motivation as to why collectors might choose to pay premiums for modern slabbed bullion coins.

Many collectors want to own and pass down for generations a coin type that is in the best possible condition.

Many collectors collect sets and at least for the ASE, if they happen to be lucky enough to have all previaous ASE's in graded 69 or 70 condition, then naturally a 2016 in the same condition makes complete sense.

Tubes are not the ideal way to preserve a coin. Most coins in a tube still move around and when they do and the coins surfaces are touching, wear can become obvious even to the naked eye.



I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that if Aussies had an NGC and PCGS and ANACS in their backyard like Yanks do, there'd be far more popularity in Australia for slabbed coins....even modern bullion.


Do you consider the 1 oz. silver Lunar series 2 bullion coins as bullion in the same category as the Kangaroo or ASE?



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SilverPOD said:
G'Day Stackers,

I've come across quite a few 'slabbed' bullion coins, Kooks, lunar etc. What am I missing here? why are people charging far more for these coins then the coin and I assume the cost of getting it graded is worth? Does the slabbing keep the coin in better condition or does it give it a more none fake appeal?

I also tend to see more NGC then PCGS bullion coins do others see that trend?

Thanks for your thoughts

Not all coins are created equal. Wear on dies, quality of blanks, contaminants in any part of the process including cleaning agents used on machinery, even contaminants in capsules or tubes can all lead to the million or so bullion coins having very few MS70 grade coins. Then storage, handling during shipment (vibration can be a big killer) not to mention actual handling of the coins by collectors whittles it down some more. Finally most of the million coins will not be graded so the actual number of MS70 slabbed coins will be quite small and attract a hefty premium over its counterparts in years to come. Your early issue box of 500 kangas may contain 50 or more MS70 coins if it has been handled well BUT a box near the end of a dies life may have no MS70 coins but a lot of MS69 or MS68 coins.

I believe the PCGS grading service is the more popular one which means coins graded by them are easier to sell at a premium than coins graded by other services. Happy to stand corrected on this.
 
mmissinglink said:
Do you consider the 1 oz. silver Lunar series 2 bullion coins as bullion in the same category as the Kangaroo or ASE?
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I would consider lunars at the cusp of collector coin.

As for tubes not being ideal storage, I concede, still with millions out in collections they will be a sizeable number grade able coin don't you think
 
such an excellent question, i regret seeing this thread so late.. just want to add my 5 grams to the thread..

imagine yourself as a wealthy investor in the year 2235, with a fetish for pre-collapse early 21st century gold and silver bullion coins

yes, the answer to your question lies within placing yourself in the shoes of the buyer, instead of the investor.
 
I found this interesting comment in a video on YouTube:

While the majority of modern fresh from the tube bullion ASE's are graded MS69 or MS70, there's 3 important things to keep in mind: 1) the US Mint doesn't care at all that its bullion coins are in near perfect condition or not....I have seen many fresh from the tube ASE's in pretty bad condition (wouldn't grade even 68), 2) individuals who are sending in ASE's to get graded and slabbed by TPG's are typically being very selective in which coins they send in.

Those coins that do not pass the muster of the individual who considers which ASE's to send in and which to definitely not send in for grading don't get sent in for grading because it costs money for grading services and most collectors who sell coins already know that ASE's that grade 69 or below often sell for no more than a raw ASE that appears to be in (near) flawless condition - the expense is not worth sending in coins that can be observed to have minor imperfections. So, generally only the highest condition coins are being sent in for grading....and of these, a percentage come back in less than 69 graded condition, 3) looking at NGC's census for BU ASE's ( https://www.ngccoin.com/census/united-states/american-eagles-and-bullion-coins/76/ ), one can readily see than many (though certainly the minority) of those coins selectively chosen and sent in for grading grade at less than 69.

And as I've already pointed out, only the best of the best modern bullion coins are typically sent in for grading my most individuals and dealers outside of perhaps the largest couple or so dealers who may or may not send in unopened monster boxes of ASE's for bulk grading. So we can only imagine how poor the condition is of many of the bullion ASE's not sent in....atrocious condition for a coin fresh from the mint. But as I've also pointed out, the mint doesn't care one iota since these are bullion ASE's.

So, it's actually not a scam and it's not purely hype to have ASE's sent in for grading and to sell for a higher premium those that are graded 70. The collector market in the U.S. in general apparently doesn't think so either. And while few may argue that a 2015 MS70 ASE is rare (I certainly don't argue that), by no means should we ever suggest that all current ASE's produced are in either 69 or 70 condition (TPG graded or not). That's a significant distortion of the truth as explained above.

Another point to consider is that almost no BU CSML's (Canadian Silver Maple Leafs) have ever graded 70 since their inception in 1988. Only in 2015 was there a marked change in the number of CSML's that graded 70 by NGC. I'm not sure if this was due to quality control changes implemented at the RCM or protocol changes at NGC.


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